could we get more

[Steve]

Couple things...

Hidden: show

1. You can loot all you want and get all the nifty epic uber loot in the current rig and loot table and you will still not be able to trade with the "big boys" simple fact is nothing can compete with grandfathered gear. I don't say this to upset anyone, I don't have any grandfathered/dm awarded stuff either as I'm relatively new. I recently found out I'm considered "rich" by most standards even though I've attempted to trade with a few folks from this thread and others, but just couldn't compete. Point being I'm apparently one if the "haves" now, just on the lowest possible end so still not invited to the party, just get to see more of what I'm missing.

2. Any changes to loot, merchants, etc. Will only be made in a somewhat conservative manner as you can't "undue" power creep as easily as you can increase things a bit more if previous changes are deemed to have little impact. A measured approach must be taken to ensure we don't undo the fantastic work put in to make this server great.

So don't try to compete with Karond or other folks that have gear no longer available, all of those items will stay with the dozen or so players that have been around or were the lucky recipients of players that quit and handed off their gear... it's unhealthy and can only lead to frustration. Instead think about what would be better for the 90% that just want a chance at the stuff that is still available and what things are under represented in the loot tables. These are the kind of things that perhaps can be improved upon.

Thanks!

Chad,
You know I've been around the Server for 5+ years now. It wasn't until 2014 that I bought my first Epic Gear item, meaning: until I could afford to. That's 3 years!!!

Since then, I've been straight given a bunch of Epic Items (though I'd prefer to have earned them, I'm no fool, so I gladly accepted).

Still, in the last year, I've spent more than 3.5 million coin on items. I've also traded an epic item I was amazed I even could buy, for a slightly less epic version of a slighty-less-than-similar item. Why? Because it was a long time friend.

So what am I saying here?

1. It isn't so much about grandfathered gear being around, or not...it's about the OOC trading for OOC reasons, more than IC reasons (or just IC wealth). The Economy is just seriously screwed up, and though many can pinpoint what makes it wrong, few then can offer an alternative. So unless you can find a solution for OOC Trading in principle, it really doesn't matter if it is Epic or not.

2. In my opinion, the Number 1 reason why gear is so limited, is because there is little turn around of PCs. PCs get to lvl 30 quick, then what? You're only left with equipping them better. If a PC had the possibly of truly dying, and never reached lvl 17 for example...then Epic Gear wouldn't even matter!

3. What and how does Gear make for a better Game Experience? Does Gear actually improve Role-play? Or is it the small "reward" we as Players seek out because there are little other rewards for us to experience on BGTSCC?

[chad878262]

I've been straight given a bunch of Epic Items (though I'd prefer to have earned them, I'm no fool, so I gladly accepted).

An experience I and others haven't had and can't be relied upon...good for you? I have many friends on this server a few have left, perhaps they gave gear to someone, I don't really know. It doesn't bother me either way, just staying a fact.

1. Not sure you can really do anything about folks helping out their ooc buddies...

2. I agree, but conversely for a newbie that spent know the ropes..If I have to start over every time I hit level 3-7 because I don't know where to go I'm probably going to quit because I can't grow my character concept since they fire every couple sessions. Maybe some sort of a death is real after a certain character level or something? If every new player gets frustrated and leaves the server will die sooner rather than later.

3. This is.d&d right? PnP is still about the gear too... I don't get frustrated over the uber stiff I can't trade for (doesn't stop me from trying though!) Again was simply starting the facts...people want to improve their pc and have comparable gear to what others have, nothing wrong with that, is there?

[Steve]

I have many friends on this server a few have left, perhaps they gave gear to someone, I don't really know. It doesn't bother me either way, just staying a fact.

But that's my point: stating a fact without having an alternative that is realistic to balancing out the situation in general, get's us where??

Saying "more chests, more epic loot" will simply give the Big Time Grinders more...much more than the Newbs or the Relaxed Adventurers, who are rarely searching but still desire something nice (or Epic NICE!!!).

Isn't this the problem then? Equal chances for all...right? But the SYSTEM is now, and always has been: the more you Loot on purpose, the greater your chances of getting something Epic. Increasing that output—as was recently just done, in general—only produces more for those that seek it out. I know you have a Toon specifically made for grinding chests...but I guess you are feeling it isn't working out to your gain, yet?

And honestly, have you ever asked Karond how he got all that great gear?!?

[chad878262]

I know you have a Toon specifically made for grinding chests...but I guess you are feeling it isn't working out to your gain, yet?

What??? I have pc's that I made because I was disappointed that Cranston simply can't survive on certain areas of the server, but I haven't played alts much at all the last few months, just Cranston and I hope you don't think he's a chest grinder! Yes he loots, but he's an adventurer and he is definitely there for rp!

[Eldebryn]

I have many friends on this server a few have left, perhaps they gave gear to someone, I don't really know. It doesn't bother me either way, just staying a fact.

But that's my point: stating a fact without having an alternative that is realistic to balancing out the situation in general, get's us where??

Saying "more chests, more epic loot" will simply give the Big Time Grinders more...much more than the Newbs or the Relaxed Adventurers, who are rarely searching but still desire something nice (or Epic NICE!!!).

Isn't this the problem then? Equal chances for all...right? But the SYSTEM is now, and always has been: the more you Loot on purpose, the greater your chances of getting something Epic. Increasing that output—as was recently just done, in general—only produces more for those that seek it out. I know you have a Toon specifically made for grinding chests...but I guess you are feeling it isn't working out to your gain, yet?

And honestly, have you ever asked Karond how he got all that great gear?!?

If the issue is to give players with less server time rewards closer to a theoretical 16/24h grinder the answer isn't really that complicated, but I'm not sure if it can be implemented.
Essentially it takes a "pretty good", high-tier reward has a time constraint. Eg. chests (or other kind of reward gain) that can only be tapped once per set time unit.
Imagine, for instance, all high-tier/epic items removed from current looting methods, drops or chests. Now imagine all of them dropping ONLY from 5-10 chests that each character can only use once per week. Maybe month even.
Guild Wars 2 did something like that with daily event exp. It's the same principle and, AFAIK, the only way to "normalize" the gains of people invest 2/10/40 hours per week.

[Karond]

Thanks for the namedropping everyone.

Increasing that output—as was recently just done, in general—only produces more for those that seek it out.

And honestly, have you ever asked Karond how he got all that great gear?!?

I think this sentence has an air of wrongness about it. It's debatable if the general output increased, but regardless, those that "seek it out", the loot grinders, they get exactly half of what they used to get now. Since this is the main way to get richer, it has made becoming richer more difficult IMO. I do think that we need to implement more chests or up the percentages, and I'm heavily leaning towards the latter because of ease of implementation and less waste of time (as new chests are likely to be dropped in areas where there aren't any chests now, so you'll have to move about even more).

I thought how I aquired and continue to aquire wealth was obvious by now Steve?

But that's my point: stating a fact without having an alternative that is realistic to balancing out the situation in general, get's us where??

Saying "more chests, more epic loot" will simply give the Big Time Grinders more...much more than the Newbs or the Relaxed Adventurers, who are rarely searching but still desire something nice (or Epic NICE!!!).

That's just another fact, without stating an alternative. Of course those who invest more into it get more. Shouldn't they?

For the record, I wish people stopped saying "grandfathered gear". Most of the high epic stuff people see and think of about this aren't grandfathered (which means items once readily available for the public usually through a shop which was then removed, and then the mistake of letting the aquired items linger on without a chance for others to aquire them in the same way as the current owners got them). It's DM rewards, some from the DM reward pre-made list, some custom made and older when the DMs had little to no oversight, and others are just extremely lucky rolls on the random loot generator (which people always have a chance at).

[Lockonnow]

well i didt but i sould name namedropping everyone that have over millions and you are many on this server

[Steve]

... the loot grinders, they get exactly half of what they used to get now.

This is true...except, loot grinders are NOW GUARANTEED LOOT IN EACH CHEST THEY VISIT PER SERVER RESET. In the previous system, there was a very high possibility of a Chest already being looted, and with a 20 minute reset timer on each chest, it was not viable to wait around for the chest to reset...unless you have multiple Loot Grinding Toons—a Looter Army *eyes M3nt*—and you can simply "park" toons in different areas, waiting out Timers.

In addition, running from Chest Location to Chest Location is rather inefficient with a high possibility of another Toon(s) being in that Area before you get there—which is why successful grinders make very good use of the SCRY (metagaming).

We've talked about this privately, so I know where you stand on believe you are correct, Karond. But what you continue to deny is the FACT that now, in the new system, every Toon has a 1 time per reset chance to find a LOADED CHEST (in their CR range, of course). Previously, it was highly unlikely to have more than a 50-60% success rate on finding loaded chests.

So, like I said to you in private, the new system provides more, in all categories. I know you disagree, but since the Loot System was changed...have you noticed that Mudd's Auctioneer is nearly CONSTANTLY FULL at 60/60 items in each category? Did you happen to wonder WHY that is?!?

I thought how I aquired and continue to aquire wealth was obvious by now Steve?

Ha! Did you read me writing "I wonder why Karond is so rich with coin and items?" No, you didn't. You got money and gear exactly as you pointed out in your edumacational post: playing Toons/Players against each other in needs and wants, until you could then RCR your main toon Karond into the Merchant he always pretended to be.

That's just another fact, without stating an alternative.

I stated my alternative here. It ain't a new idea, coming from me.

For the record, I wish people stopped saying "grandfathered gear".

I totally agree with you. Grandfathered implies that the DM Staff saw the INSANE gear, and decided to NOT deal with it. That is wrong. When I was Head DM—and I'm sure this still continues—when Items that are "grandfathered" and implying illegal are found, they are adjusted. Furthermore, most "grandfathered" gear ARE DM awards.

Why do DMs give out very special and particular awards? For Role-play.

[AC81]

1- The new loot system provides half the chances per chest, but as Steve says, if used to its potential will provide loot quicker to ALL. How you people use this is up to you but you should know this - the best loot I have ever pulled from a chest is an Epic Fang war hammer, which ironically happened a few days ago under our new loot system. This means that I acquired most of my epic gear not by looting but by trading and rping within guilds. Isn't this how a medium Rp world is supposed to be (feel free to chime in 'elite rpers').

2- Next. Karond has TOLD you all how to get rich. Either go and do it or stop whinging. One note to this: it will take you years - just like it took Karond, Ment, me and others years. Don't ask us to give you gear just because you get bored of not having the best stuff.

3- Give gold value. Enchanters, epic stores, horses, houses and estates. Give gold its value back and suddenly these (perceived) issues will go.

I apologise if this post comes across as overly aggressive but I tire of being labelled simply because I have been on this server a long time and have traded well during that time.

[thids]

Why do DMs give out very special and particular awards? For Role-play.

That's just a silly excuse that people say when they think they need to justify DM rewards. If roleplay was the only reason, handing out a regular +3 or +4 weapon for an example with a special unique name and a neat item description would do the job. Just stop trying to justify DM's handing out gear. I have posted about this before, there is NOTHING wrong with DM's handing out good items to players (as long as those items are within the rules of the server), there is nothing to be justified, in fact it should happen waaaay more often. The excitement around obtaining and wielding magical items a.k.a. phat lewtz is a part of D&D, the game nwn2 is trying to emulate to a point. People have this weird idea that DM's handing out rewards is somehow shameful because it's a sign of "favoritism" or something.

Think about it like this:
What is more shameful, receiving a cool (good) item from the bandit lords corpse after you have slain him in a DM event which entailed you roleplaying your character, or getting an epic version of an item after looting the same chest for hundreds of times with 0 RP involved on a RP server?

To be clear, I don't think either is "shameful" on BG, considering the kind of server this is, but since people often want to put shame on one of these option, I think it's quite clear which option would deserve that shame way more.

TL;DR
DM'S PLEASE HAND OUT MORE SHINIES. I DON'T CARE IF THEY SHINE PINK.

[Kanada]

I do think there is a tiny of "I've got mine, don't care how you get yours." Simply put, someone without epic loot to their name now has a 50% less chance of ever getting it. People who are already "rich" will stay rich, and everyone else will just stay poor longer.

[Lockonnow]

guilds rewards and i havent got a dm rewards for years like 4 years i have found out why the dm give out rewards and i will not tell it dose it have something about RP?

[seawied]

I, for one, like the new loot system and am against drastic changes.

Yes, it is in theory to become as wealthy as the top rich players on the server. However, what will happen in the meantime is a much higher OVERALL wealth of the entire server.

You no longer have to build a solo uber character to gather decent gear. The new system encourages people to play together, and does not punish loot grinders from taking a party.

So instead of a dozen or so high level solo loot grinders getting most the loot, everyone gets a bit of loot. Yay! Socialism!

[Lockonnow]

you can sole the area why souldt you

[DM Ditto]

TL;DR
DM'S PLEASE HAND OUT MORE SHINIES. I DON'T CARE IF THEY SHINE PINK.

*takes notes*


(fake) edit: Wow, what a way to kick off a new page!