Bard build tips

[freekender]

Hello all!

After considering several builds for a new char, I'm almost sure of going for a wood elf bard. The problem is I have never played a bard, so I have been investigating through the forums for some info. I have seen some interesting builds, and the bard class seems also fun to play. I would like to have some tips for the builder masters here about the following points:

1. Adding Dread Pirate and/or Dissonant Chord to the mix.
2. Pros/cons of going for a dex bard and/or dual welding compared to str and cha ones (not completely sure of going for a dual welding bard, but I like the idea).
3. Is Song of the Heart feat avaible on the server? I have read in a post that is not avaible, but would like to confirm this point. Are there some other bard feats neither avaible here?
4. Feats that are a must have or highly recommended for a bard (songs, extra music, epics and so).

EDIT: two extra doubts in a message below

Thank in advance!

[mrm3ntalist]

1. Dread pirate should only be considered if you are going for dex and TWF. Dissonant Chord works better on high CHA bards.
2. Dex based bard does not require Mith full plate which is rare, can go heavy in defense with CE/ICE and TWF and deals a bit more damage if you manage to fit in PTWF
3. It is not available
4. Curse song, song and hymn of the requiem are the must have. PA/IPA ( or CE/ICE if you go dex ) are worth having. Extend metamagic is of course a must.

Personally I would build an STR bard. A pure bard can get you everything you need. The race ( Wod elf ) makes it more difficult to multiclass but allows to built it for Mith Breastplate without losing much, if anything, compared to Mith Full plate bards. If you dont mind an XP penalty, rogue can get you evasion, something bards really need because of their low HP and then EW if you want it.

http://nwn2db.com/build/?233318 - This is how i would do it, if 20%xp penalty is not an issue

[chad878262]

EDM Blackguard Bard:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?222696

Bard / dread pirate / tempest (note CL is way low):
http://nwn2db.com/build/?224278

Pure DEX bard:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?224279

Just some examples to give you ideas. I haven't played any of these... B/DP/Temp becomes a much worse build with dispel fix, but currently should be pretty good with +7 inspire courage. However the pure dex is probably better since bards really don't need the extra damage or ac from tempest (see M3ntalists naked bard soloing the Balor)

The bard/BG is just for comparison against the standard bard/fighter. Any of the above should be perfectly fine as wood elf though the loss of a feat in the tempest build may be difficult.

Good luck and have fun!

[Thorsson]

If you're Wood Elf and you want to TWF then you could consider Ranger; trouble is you would need to wear Light Armor.

In the Feat dept I would also really want Lingering Song if at all possible.

Possible build.

[freekender]

Thank you for the answers. They have been really helpful (even to make me less sure about the TWF path )

Anyway, while I have been considering some options, some extra doubts have came to my mind; all about the inspirations and songs when adding classes (base or prestige) to the bard. I am referring to the number of songs per day and the boost of the inspirations (given the descriptions say that the inspirations grant a certain boost when the char reaches a certain lvl of bard; for example Inspire Courage goes from +1 at lvl 1 to +5 at lvl 26). They are the following:

5. Does Practiced Spellcaster feat affect the above? (I fear the answer to this is "no", but... just in case)
6. And what about PrCs like Dissonant Chord? (I read something in a post from some years ago saying there could be some kind of bug)

[chad878262]

5. Practiced spell caster does not effect bard songs/inspirations, only spell levels.

6. DC stacks with bard for songs/day and inspirations... I believe (based on my B/F/DC char) that the songs you get from EDIT: Dissonant Chord do not show up in your songs per day when you log in until you rest. This is similar to wearing items granting bonus spells/day where they don't get included until you rest.


As M3nt stated most of dissonant chords abilities are better for a charisma bard, but they are far from useless even on a strength bard. If you went with a EDM bard I'd say your dc would be fine with the split between STR/CHA.

IMO strength bard 26/F4 is probably the most "powerful/well rounded" option followed closely by edm bard. The DEX bard would doo we'll to take rogue, shadow dancer or something to work toward expose weakness. Bard 27/SD3 would be very good at stealth with inspire competence, but with no SA dice...

[DM Bloodlust]

Moved to character building.

[freekender]

Thanks for the quick answer Chad. Sadly, there's something that is still not completely clear to me...

6. DC stacks with bard for songs/day and inspirations... I believe (based on my B/F/DC char) that the songs yippy get from divine champion (((did you mean Dissonant Chord here?))) do not show up in your songs per day when you log in until you rest. This is similar to wearing items granting bonus spells/day where they don't get included until you rest.

You are referring here to the number of songs, right? One of the things that I meant in my previous message was the boost of the inspirations. Let me put an example...

Imagine a build with, let's say, a split of 25 Bard / 5 Dissonant Chord. Will this char get with Inspire courage a boost of +5 (granted with 26 Bard levels according to the description) or only a +4? Jut to be totally sure of what are the gaining/loses of this class. I repeat this is just a mere example, not the definitive split (although I'm seriously considering this one, fits very well some details of the backgroud I have in mind).

As M3nt stated most of dissonant chords abilities are better for a charisma bard, but they are far from useless even on a strength bard. If you went with a EDM bard I'd say your dc would be fine with the split between STR/CHA.

Yup, I can imagine that due to some researching, it's completely right. But, I'm not looking for a powerbuild or the best-to-the-detail, although yes for knowing what could I expect. I know I ask a lot about when I'm planning a char. I do that always when I don't know, main problem of being an engineer, we can be a pain in the ***

Now seriously, thank you very much for the answers. They are greatly appreciated and help me a ton

[Thorsson]

There's Inspirations and there's Songs. Inspirations are advanced by all Bard PrCs (so not PrCs like Pale Master or Eldritch Knight). Most PrCs do not advance Song Progression, sometimes substituting new songs instead, like Stormsinger. Dissonant Chord will not progress you towards getting Legionnaire's March, for example. However you can still get the "Requiems" using these classes, without having 20/21 actual Bard levels.

[chad878262]

Edited original post, yes I was talking about dissonant chord...

Every level of DC gives you an additional song per day and improved your inspirations. So as Thorsson stated, you won't get song of hero's or legionaire's March until you reach the actual Bard level, but you can qualify for Requiem as B16/DC5 (for example).

[freekender]

There's Inspirations and there's Songs. Inspirations are advanced by all Bard PrCs (so not PrCs like Pale Master or Eldritch Knight). Most PrCs do not advance Song Progression, sometimes substituting new songs instead, like Stormsinger. Dissonant Chord will not progress you towards getting Legionnaire's March, for example. However you can still get the "Requiems" using these classes, without having 20/21 actual Bard levels.

Every level of DC gives yippy an additional song per day and improved your inspirations. So as Thorsson stated, you won't get song of hero's or legionaire's March until you reach the actual Bard level, but you can qualify for Requiem as B16/DC5 (for example).

Thanks both. I explained it wrong, sorry. I meant the number of songs per day that can be sung, but it's been answered as well.

Well, with all this, I think I have enough info to consider the options I have in mind.

Thanks again! You have helped me a lot!

[freekender]

After some tries I couldn't resist the option of chosing a STR Bard with 3lvls of rogue dip for evasion, EW and extra skill points (thank you very much for the tip m3ntalist). Finally, after some considerations, I will add 5lvls of DC for the extra goodies (I loose two epic feats, but they would be two Giant Strengths = -1STR, an acceptable exchange for me) and the fit of this class on the char background.

The last minor doubt this final split has generated on me is because of the extra skill points the Rogue class gives. I think Disable Device, Open Lock and Search are the Rogue class skills to go for; up to 42 skill points to distribute in them in total. But, it's the first time I'm going to take them with a char on the server, so I don't know exactly which is the best rank in each one to be optimized, because I completely ignore the higher DCs of the traps and locks I can expect.

Thanks in advance again!

[chad878262]

with a bard 1 point is probably plenty for open lock. It will allow you to open all, but maybe half a dozen chests on the server and to open those you would need a significant (max?) investment, probably just not worth it. Disable Device, if you are going to put points in you should max or get near max and then throw a few (10-20) in search. So with 42 points I would do 1 in OL, 10 in Search and 31 in disable device.

Just my opinion though, you might want to think about throwing some points in to bluff, diplomacy or some other RP related skills as well. Taunt would be fun if you wanted to be the kind of Bard that acts as a Jester, throwing 'yo momma' jokes around (except server appropriate...)

[freekender]

with a bard 1 point is probably plenty for open lock. It will allow you to open all, but maybe half a dozen chests on the server and to open those you would need a significant (max?) investment, probably just not worth it. Disable Device, if you are going to put points in you should max or get near max and then throw a few (10-20) in search. So with 42 points I would do 1 in OL, 10 in Search and 31 in disable device.

Thanks for the info. The 3rd Rogue lvl will be at lvl 20, so the max in each at a cost of 1 point per rank is 23. And Ï planned to take Luck of Heroes to help the "meh" saves a bit. Maaaaaybe with a little sacrifice of other skills I could raise Disble Device a bit, I will see...

Just my opinion though, you might want to think about throwing some points in to bluff, diplomacy or some other RP related skills as well. Taunt would be fun if you wanted to be the kind of Bard that acts as a Jester, throwing 'yo momma' jokes around (except server appropriate...)

Yes, it's an opinion, but a very welcome one. I trust the more experienced players in aspects of the server I disown, as these tips are very useful and had always helped me a lot. About the RP skills, they are already covered mainly by Diplomacy. The Taunt idea sounds great, and I thought about it some time ago, because all my chars tend to have an open sense of humour (a drow in particular some kind of cruel in fact lol). But this time, I wanted to make a more "sad" and "nostalgic" char, so it doesn't fit very well. Let's see how it works.

Thank you!

[chad878262]

And Ï planned to take Luck of Heroes to help the "meh" saves a bit. Maaaaaybe with a little sacrifice of other skills I could raise Disble Device a bit, I will see...

There's a spell for that... Bards get Greater / Superior Resistance for +3 and eventually +6 to saves with a 24 hour duration... My Bard's saves are pretty darn great! Luck of Hero's is still ALWAYS a good pick and considering you gain huge bonuses via Inspiration you should be fine making Disable Device 23, Search 10-15 and Open Lock 1 - (whatever, but really if you go more than 1 you need quite a bit higher to open the chests with really hard locks).

In any case, you could always go 1 OL, 10 Search, 23 Disable Device and just put the extra points in other skills to RP a sort of well rounded 'jack of all trades' type

But this time, I wanted to make a more "sad" and "nostalgic" char, so it doesn't fit very well. Let's see how it works.

Take a look at Hoar as a god... God of Poetic Justice, retribution, et. al. I hear the Hunter's of Vengeance are recruiting! (/shameless plug)