Reducing area clutter + Tweaks to current maps.

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Steve
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Re: Reducing area clutter + Tweaks to current maps.

Unread post by Steve » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:31 pm

Make more existing Areas CR 20+! :dance:

You can send payment for good ideas to this address.... 8-)
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Re: Reducing area clutter + Tweaks to current maps.

Unread post by K'yon Oblodra » Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:20 pm

Steve wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:31 pm
Make more existing Areas CR 20+! :dance:


I second that.
You can send payment for good ideas to this address.... 8-)
This not so much XD
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Snarfy
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Re: Reducing area clutter + Tweaks to current maps.

Unread post by Snarfy » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:57 pm

Steve wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:31 pm
Make more existing Areas CR 20+! :dance:

You can send payment for good ideas to this address.... 8-)
Or... alternatively, make the roads less tedious to travel on your way to use the ones we already have!

In any case, not a terrible idea, here's your payment! :
Hidden: show
Image
... :mrgreen: You didn't specify the type of payment, and that's all I can afford, Steve old buddy!

(psst, I made a suggestion about tweaks)

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Max Hatchet
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Re: Reducing area clutter + Tweaks to current maps.

Unread post by Max Hatchet » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:21 pm

Snarfy wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:57 pm
Steve wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:31 pm
Make more existing Areas CR 20+! :dance:

You can send payment for good ideas to this address.... 8-)
Or... alternatively, make the roads less tedious to travel on your way to use the ones we already have!

In any case, not a terrible idea, here's your payment! :
Hidden: show
Image
... :mrgreen: You didn't specify the type of payment, and that's all I can afford, Steve old buddy!

(psst, I made a suggestion about tweaks)
Why are roads tedious to travel on?
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Snarfy
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Re: Reducing area clutter + Tweaks to current maps.

Unread post by Snarfy » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:16 pm

Max Hatchet wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:21 pm
Why are roads tedious to travel on?
..........
Snarfy wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:30 pm
Image

This is me walking my older character along Lions Way... it took about 30 seconds to accumulate this mob.
Snarfy wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:57 pm
(psst, I made a suggestion about tweaks)
*Late edit*
Hidden: show
I got bored... and decided to start a Bladestone(rip) Beetle Sanctuary as a workaround until a cure for the beetle-plague was found(shhhyeah, right)...
Image

Fun fact: there is a finite amount of creatures that will spawn on the map at any given time, and I'd cleared the roads of beetles for a whole 5 minutes... until the CK guards murdered them all. :x

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Max Hatchet
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Re: Reducing area clutter + Tweaks to current maps.

Unread post by Max Hatchet » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:18 am

If we want to continue this discussion i could simplify my thoughts as:

Too many towns. Not enough wilderness.

In the LONG RUN do we need Nashkell AND Beregost?
The server feels very thinly spread over a vast area.
Its lacks a sense of scale and size. Add in a bit more road to give it that sense of scale.


ALSO:
Make Baldur's Gate BIGGER. Make it maybe 5 or 6 areas on the surface with more adventure and content. Add a dungeon or two beneath the city? Maybe something really extensive?
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Re: Reducing area clutter + Tweaks to current maps.

Unread post by Shadowspinner70 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:53 am

Max Hatchet wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:18 am
Too many towns. Not enough wilderness.

In the LONG RUN do we need Nashkell AND Beregost?
The server feels very thinly spread over a vast area.
Its lacks a sense of scale and size. Add in a bit more road to give it that sense of scale.

ALSO:
Make Baldur's Gate BIGGER. Make it maybe 5 or 6 areas on the surface with more adventure and content. Add a dungeon or two beneath the city? Maybe something really extensive?
I agree! We need more roads in-between. It takes only a few transitions to move from Soubar to Nashkel, even when walking. Baldur's Gate needs to be scaled up as well. Maybe roads north and then roads south? Keep the enemies off of the roads and in the wilderness or in caves or dungeons off of the road?
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Re: Reducing area clutter + Tweaks to current maps.

Unread post by Snarfy » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:46 pm

Max Hatchet wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:18 am
If we want to continue this discussion i could simplify my thoughts as:

Too many towns. Not enough wilderness.

In the LONG RUN do we need Nashkell AND Beregost?
Yes, and yes. But that's just my opinion. There's just too much(glorious) server history surrounding those places, not to mention existing RP and the presence of guilds, to even consider removing them. And, before any denials follow suit, just because certain players don't engage or participate in those areas, or in said RP or guilds, does not mean they don't exist. If you had been around on the server during the Amn-Gate war or the years after, Max, you likely wouldn't even consider the removal of these towns as something remotely suggestible. Then again, you did suggest removing 2 vital race-specific RP centers before this....
Shadowspinner70 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:53 am
I agree! We need more roads in-between. It takes only a few transitions to move from Soubar to Nashkel, even when walking. Baldur's Gate needs to be scaled up as well. Maybe roads north and then roads south? Keep the enemies off of the roads and in the wilderness or in caves or dungeons off of the road?
There's actually a really great zone that may or may not be in the vaults, that might be dusted off: just north of Beregost there was an area with two bridges leading to the town where a bloody battle occurred to re-take the town from Amnian forces. There's also the old map south of CK, with the beach, lighthouse and caved in Ironfaar stronghold that many of those annoying beetles used to spawn on... and I miss it dearly. That being said, I'd be more than happy with more roads and wilderness(as long as they weren't overly cluttered with endless amounts of spawns).
Last edited by Snarfy on Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Reducing area clutter + Tweaks to current maps.

Unread post by Planehopper » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:35 pm

And the larger "along the chointhar" map that included nodes for finding bait, where the barbarians lived, and a shoot off from there that was between it and the Sharpteeth (I think).

Lots of good road/wilderness maps, but they are exteriors and my understanding is we are tapped out on those for the time being, until we get things figured to link servers.

We could probably consolidate the cloakwood to 1-2 maps, couldn't we? Probably dont need three. We could still leave all of the linked areas, maybe move the hag cave to the Sharpteeth, near the back where there is space.

Hard to imagine any other exteriors that are as unused.
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Max Hatchet
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Re: Reducing area clutter + Tweaks to current maps.

Unread post by Max Hatchet » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:39 pm

What i’m meaning is do we need BOTH Beregost and Nashkel? I don’t really see how server reconfiguring needs to be constricted by whether certain areas featured in past story lines. Is keeping Nashkel really all that vital? I have to admit it is a lovely area though.
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Re: Reducing area clutter + Tweaks to current maps.

Unread post by Snarfy » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:46 pm

Planehopper wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:35 pm
And the larger "along the chointhar" map that included nodes for finding bait, where the barbarians lived, and a shoot off from there that was between it and the Sharpteeth (I think).
Also a great map, but maybe I'm biased, since my toon PK'd a bad guy at a wedding there. Also, bring back Triel!
We could probably consolidate the cloakwood to 1-2 maps, couldn't we? Probably dont need three. We could still leave all of the linked areas, maybe move the hag cave to the Sharpteeth, near the back where there is space.
Hmm, neat idea. Shuffle the minotaur cave to west cloakwood as well, and get rid of the middle cloakwood would be my vote.
Hard to imagine any other exteriors that are as unused.
:think: ... Forest of Wyrms, Reaching woods, Corm Orp, and high moors south and north dont see a lot of action. I do enjoy them all though, but I suspect they're a bit too far out of the way, and characters dont have much reason to visit them(other than to pass through on their way elsewhere).

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Re: Reducing area clutter + Tweaks to current maps.

Unread post by Tanlaus » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:30 pm

Reaching woods seems to be a prime epic leveling spot. I see mid 20s there all the time. Used to participate in groups there a lot myself.

Also the spirit troll cave and ziggurat are both great epic areas in south and north high moors respectively. Be a shame to get rid of either of those.

In fact I’d argue areas that can present any kind of challenge to epic groups are one of the things the server lacks. People still want to adventure when they reach 30.

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Re: Reducing area clutter + Tweaks to current maps.

Unread post by Max Hatchet » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:03 am

Tanlaus wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:30 pm
Reaching woods seems to be a prime epic leveling spot. I see mid 20s there all the time. Used to participate in groups there a lot myself.

Also the spirit troll cave and ziggurat are both great epic areas in south and north high moors respectively. Be a shame to get rid of either of those.

In fact I’d argue areas that can present any kind of challenge to epic groups are one of the things the server lacks. People still want to adventure when they reach 30.
Yes. Reaching Woods is one of the busiest adventuring areas on the server. Agreed on the need for more high lvl challenging areas.
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Re: Reducing area clutter + Tweaks to current maps.

Unread post by LazyTrain » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:00 am

As far as I can tell this thread went from "can we clean up areas" to "I think we should get rid of literal cities". Y'all should try and keep it on track and shift focus to areas that need clutter reduced as per the thread name. I'm actively looking through this thread for ideas to reduce clutter, not so much for "can we get rid of X because I don't see people using it?"
Max Hatchet wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:18 am
Make Baldur's Gate BIGGER. Make it maybe 5 or 6 areas on the surface with more adventure and content. Add a dungeon or two beneath the city? Maybe something really extensive?

BG is already cluttered enough as it is and has an extensive sewer system with a Lich down there, idk how much more you want. If we made BG 5 or 6 full areas we'd have no room for anything else due to the memory it would use up.

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Re: Reducing area clutter + Tweaks to current maps.

Unread post by DaloLorn » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:40 am

Quoting everything I'd like to respond to would be a bit of a pain in the neck, especially with the amount of cutting down I'd have to do, so I'm just going to paraphrase the key points (both the ones that are really there and those that seem to have been inferred by others):
Well-traveled roads shouldn't use the MMO spawner
Roads shouldn't use the MMO spawner, period
Roads should only use the MMO spawner near the lairs of various monsters
I generally agree. The bandits and kobolds north of the FAI, the beetles and ogres on the Lion's Way, the goblins on the road to Beregost, the wolves on the Northern Trade Way... Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely in favor of getting in a scrap around those parts on occasion. But the Trade Way is supposed to be the most well-traveled road on the server. Why is the main artery of the region's commerce completely impassable to anything not escorted by a level 10+ character?

That being said, the MMO spawner has its uses. Less-traveled roads, like Thundar's Ride (I imagine) or the Fields of the Dead, are certainly hazardous enough to warrant its use. Monster lairs are another good use of that spawner, as exemplified by the gnolls on the Lion's Way or the main bandit camp north of the FAI (or the goblin ruins in that same area).
The ambush spawner should trigger more often, with difficulty scaling and even elite mobs from time to time
Ambushes shouldn't spawn right on top of the party
Yeah! Despite my tone above, the problem isn't (entirely?) that the roads are too dangerous. It's that they're too consistently, and too unavoidably dangerous. Now, if gangs of marauding bandits periodically popped up, sometimes right on top of you and sometimes well out of range (you could even set a minimum range based on the party's Spot/Listen scores!), it would be something else entirely. Suddenly it stops being "Grrr, gotta punch my way through the local wildlife" and becomes "Okay, let's try not to get caught by bandits...", which makes more sense IC and feels more palatable OOC.
As an exterior zone, roads fill an important role in XP grinding and should not be changed
I strongly disagree. We have plenty of exterior zones elsewhere. Based on the CRs on the wiki:
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1: Chionthar East (technically a road, but we can excuse that as being a less-traveled one).

1.5: BG East, Graveyard

4: Cloakwood East; Boareskyr Bridge

6: Ulgoth's Beard, Island

7: Thundar's Ride (day; again, technically a less-traveled road... though most players seem to prefer it to the Northern Trade Way)

8: High Hedge; Woods of Sharp Teeth; Cloakwood Central

12: Cloakwood North-West

13: Uldoon's Trail, North of Nashkel

14: High Moor South (this should really not be a CR14 zone, not with those hobgoblin mages...); Xvarts; Fields of the Dead

15: Misty Forest; South of Beregost, Road (just the wyvern lands on the east half, mind you :P)

16: Corm Orp; Durlag's Exterior (again, the magic/special abilities of this zone may warrant a higher CR)

16-17: Nashkel's Mine Exterior

18: Troll Claws

19: Cloud Peaks

20: Yuan-ti Hills (it's called Serpent Hills, but whatever)

23: Reaching Woods

24: Stone Giants (citation needed - I've never been there); Forest of Wyrms

27: Graypeaks

28: Speartop
It's not as smooth a progression as the interior areas, but there's two things to note here:
  1. The progression does not significantly change if we add the CR2.5 "Trade Way, Road south of BG", the CR5 "Northern Tradeway, Road south of Soubar", the CR5-6 "Lion's Way, Road south of FAI", and the CR6 "North of Beregost, Road" maps.
  2. The CR estimation is really messy on some maps.
I will, however, concede that magical attacks are far less common on the maps I'm excluding. In my opinion, it would be preferable to reduce the magic of some of the other maps on the server than to leave the roads unchanged.
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