The Roleplay Support Thread

For Issues, Ideas, or Subjects That Do Not Fit Elsewhere

Moderators: Moderator, DM

User avatar
MadSeer
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 2:31 am
Location: Canada, Qc.

The Roleplay Support Thread

Unread post by MadSeer »

Following the discussion to attract more of the community to the forum, my personal thoughts on it is that reinvigorating threads like the RP Critique/Support/self-monitoring club can help with this.

However I'm creating a new one instead of posting in the last one. It's been dead for close to a year and I would rather revise some of its original purpose and focus on the "support" side of the club rather than monitoring, and turn the club into just a plain ol' thread for everyone! So let me introduce you to...

The Roleplay Support Thread

In this thread, you can ask for and offer support with:

Pointers or critiques on your characters;

Adding depth to your characters stories;

Developing or putting forward your characters personality traits;

Basically everything that involves your character and roleplaying! It can include roleplaying combat, spellcasting, adding details to your emotes or improving the description in your biographies, just go on ahead and post!


Notes:
  • If a player requests feedback on a particular theme like alignment or PvP, try to keep your replies focused on their request for feedback and avoid derailing into a global discussion around the topic, to avoid flooding the thread with these discussions better suited for other threads!
  • On the importance of constructive criticism, as stated by LazyTrain:
    Critique and Criticism generally have overlapping meaning but criticism generally refers to the focus of the "negatives" of something. If you can not provide both a good and a bad of something then you are not critiquing it. Similarly to "constructive criticism", if you can not offer a way for someone to improve something you should not be the one laying into them.
Last edited by MadSeer on Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
MadSeer
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 2:31 am
Location: Canada, Qc.

Re: The Roleplay Support Thread

Unread post by MadSeer »

I'm going to start it off with one of my own characters: Vik

I can personally have a hard time reconciling this character's Fist of the Forest side with the rest of the setting. I play him as rarely eating anything he didn't hunt himself (the occasional honey cake being an exception) and always sleeping outside, but I find it difficult to engage him in roleplay that doesn't involve adventuring or rather initiate roleplay moments with him.

I'd be happy to receive advice or general critiques on the character to help me develop him further.
User avatar
MadSeer
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 2:31 am
Location: Canada, Qc.

Re: The Roleplay Support Thread

Unread post by MadSeer »

LazyTrain wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:19 pm Critique and Criticism generally have overlapping meaning but criticism generally refers to the focus of the "negatives" of something. If you can not provide both a good and a bad of something then you are not critiquing it. Similarly to "constructive criticism", if you can not offer a way for someone to improve something you should not be the one laying into them.
Thanks for adding this. It's an important point and doing otherwise would defeat the purpose of posting here.

As for Vik, he worships Mielikki and being good aligned puts him at odds with Malar, but I might try to get more in touch with the other nature-oriented characters, which will probably help develop him a bit more.
User avatar
gedweyignasia
Custom Content
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:27 pm
Location: EST/UTC-4
Contact:

Re: The Roleplay Support Thread

Unread post by gedweyignasia »

Character(s): Elle Carroll, Aya Dreys, Janet Deckert

Feedback Requested: Things I did that made it hard for people to RP with my character(s)/gave their PCs reasons to avoid mine, things the character(s) did that made RP more/less enjoyable for others, things the character(s) did that hindered/helped others progress their RP and develop their PC's background/story.

Reason: Rolling a new character, want to be accessible for RP, believable personality/background, and fun to RP with.

Additional: These characters are all dead, so feel free to share private information; they have nothing left to hide.
User avatar
Winterborne
Posts: 520
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:03 pm
Location: US (EST)

Re: The Roleplay Support Thread

Unread post by Winterborne »

Regarding Elle Carroll I really enjoyed her. She definitely rubbed people the wrong way and I think it made people willing to just outright cut her out of their life, but even learning terrible things about her I enjoyed all the interactions that I managed to have with her. Remember that for everything that pushes someone away, someone else will likely be drawn in.
Nathan Goldenmane - Guardian of Ilmater's Sanctuary, Mercy's Blade

Steward and Head of Business, House Darius -
User avatar
Almarea90
Forum Moderator
Posts: 918
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:26 am

Re: The Roleplay Support Thread

Unread post by Almarea90 »

Character(s): Edelgarde

Feedback Requested:
- Lawful vs Chaotic axis: I am not a fun of alignment myself and although I got the Good element of my character pretty much nailed, I am still struggling a bit on the Law vs Chaos axis. I originally created Edelgarde as chaotic, due to her demonic blood, however after joining Candlekeep things changed, so as things stand now, Edelgarde is mostly leaning toward chaos even though she has some very lawful spikes in very specific instances or people. Some say: chaotic doesn't mean without principles, she's definitely chaotic. Others say she's definitely lawful or she is neither. I would like to be interested in reading your feedback on how to better play on this axis or if I should change the sheet alignment all together.

- Scholar: In a setting where at level 30 we can reach 50+ ranks in several skills and 30+ on stats, I find it quite challenging to play a scholarly character with 30 int when I as a player am an average human being. As I explained on another post, Edelgarde's concept is very close to that of a renaissance humanistic scholar, who tries to have a "scientific" approach but in a very tentative and naive way (like Galileo throwing object down a tower and measuring how long it took them to hit the ground, but applied to arcane magic XD), on top of that she would adhere to the idea that a scholar should be engaged in many activities. That said, sometimes I find hard to assess how much I should know of any given subject I have ranked and how in depth, especially on sudden interactions where I don't have IC time to conduct a research. I would assume that having acquired that knowledge in traditional ways (good ol' bum on the chair), she wouldn't be omniscient, although having a very good memory due to the high intelligence would probably let her remember things I have written down off the top of her head. That said, I would be interested in hearing the opinion of any fellow scholar and not.

- Thaumaturgy: last but not least (and then I'm finished with the wall of text I promise) is the art of Calling outsiders on this plane, which I think is a bit of a grey area, especially if someone is playing a good aligned character. First of all, the morality of the spell "Lesser Planar Binding" is not always clear since the creature is in theory called unwillingly and that would make it questionable for a good aligned character, although only non evil characters can summon celestials, giving the idea that these creatures would only listen to non evil people. Also, the skill required for dealing with outsider is diplomacy, not intimidate that would be more appropriate for "do what I say or you'll never see your home plane again". IC, as explained in the character backstory, I am trying to play someone who "calls to serve, not to command", like the messenger kid who delivers messages to the generals on a battlefield to let them know where they are needed, since in lore outsiders should only be able to influence and not act directly unless called. That works like a good compromise most of the time, however in a few occasions, both IC and OOC different people had different ideas and it's often hard to tell who is right lorewise. Another grey area is "what happens if the outsider dies?". We all know that if a called creature dies it wouldn't immediately go back to its body, but some say it's dead for good, although in the wiki I'm pretty sure it says it takes them an amount of centuries to recorporate (which should feel like a day or two for an immortal creature). Any suggestion from fellow thaumaturges?

gedweyignasia wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:51 pm Character(s): Elle Carroll, Aya Dreys, Janet Deckert

Feedback Requested: Things I did that made it hard for people to RP with my character(s)/gave their PCs reasons to avoid mine, things the character(s) did that made RP more/less enjoyable for others, things the character(s) did that hindered/helped others progress their RP and develop their PC's background/story.

Reason: Rolling a new character, want to be accessible for RP, believable personality/background, and fun to RP with.

Additional: These characters are all dead, so feel free to share private information; they have nothing left to hide.
I have met only Elle and in one occasion, so I can't really give an exhaustive answer. OOC there was nothing wrong with her, since I found you had the amnian roleplay nailed. IC though, I play a Candlekeep scholar who wouldn't probably get along with someone who plainly said knowledge in Candlekeep should be burnt and most likely wouldn't welcome her with open arms into the keep. That said, Edelgarde is open to dialogue above all else and if she had other occasions to speak with Elle she would have tried to explain her point of view, but that might not be the case for other characters.
Edelgarde Spades - Guide of Candlekeep and Deneirrath priest, still a Disney princess in the wrong tale.

Gleam of the Firefly - In your darkest hour, look for the firefly

Auntie Ed's Wands(TM): Saving the Coast one Protection from Evil at time.

Candlekeep Public Collection Reference
User avatar
SpookySkeleton
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:03 pm

Re: The Roleplay Support Thread

Unread post by SpookySkeleton »

Almarea90 wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:25 pm Character(s): Edelgarde

Feedback Requested:
- Lawful vs Chaotic axis: ...

- Scholar: ...
Alignments! always takes a bit of interpretation. My stance is that this scale really only pertains to laws that your character would actually consider valid. as an example, a lawful evil necromancer would follow the laws put forth by his unholy temple to the letter, but would still consider laws from other factions he is enemies with or simply doesn't care about to be invalid. He would not follow those laws blindly just because he is lawful.

On the flip side, chaotic characters take a more individual approach even when they are sided with a faction. There is no reason a chaotic character wouldn't be able to follow the laws of their faction if it benefitted them. But when the detriment of those laws outweighed the benefits they would start second guessing them.

Replace faction with gods or general morals for other situations where you could apply this sort of thinking.

Scholar! One thing that you could do is make a roll against your knowledge to see if you know something. If you don't actually know it OOC, do a quick google to get the answer. Anything that you don't think google could quickly answer is tough, but you could say something like you need to re-read a book to get the exact answer, like you are knowledgeable enough to know where to find the answer but you just can't recall.

Use the 3.5 ruling as a guideline

"Answering a question within your field of study has a DC of 10 (for really easy questions), 15 (for basic questions), or 20 to 30 (for really tough questions)."

However, I understand since you would probably roll a 20 or 30 almost all of the time on your focus knowledges, you can scale those numbers up to make it more difficult for yourself. I believe lorewise we are all supposed to be less powerful than our actual mechanical level anyway.

Of course some things you've already RP'd that you know and some things are easy enough that you could just take 10 on the roll, really a self policing thing, but rolling skills is always fun!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Character(s) : Laila


Feedback Requested : PVP Etiquette

Relatively new here -- I've already been in a few PVP scraps which I've really enjoyed, but sometimes I have a hard time navigating the beginning RP. Here's a few questions regarding that :

How much time do you typically give someone to back out of the conversation after setting them hostile (which to me shows absolute clear intent)? PVPs can be very much determined by the first move, but rather than an initiative roll its usually just whoever decides the RP is done first.

What do you do if you think their "RP out" is not sufficient? If they merely walk away when you have some sort of demand for them, how do you reconcile that with your own personal RP?

Finally, other than things that are clearly stated in PVP rules, does anyone have caveats for me regarding PVP? I know it can be a point of contention and I don't want to ruin anyone's fun. Bonus points if its based on a PVP we actually had :)
Lys Beskytte - Sorceress

Laila - Adeptus Deathbringer, Harbinger of the Undeath, Temple of All Seeing Eyes
User avatar
MadSeer
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 2:31 am
Location: Canada, Qc.

Re: The Roleplay Support Thread

Unread post by MadSeer »

My thoughts on alignments:

A lawful character will adhere to a very specific doctrine or set of rules, while a chaotic character is a lot more flexible on what he will or will not do. A Lawful Good warrior might never break his word, a Neutral Good character would be reticent, but he'd break his promise if it was for the greater good, while a Chaotic Good might not give a single crap about a past promise if his feelings on the person or situation has changed.

Paladins will follow a strict doctrine from which they won't stray, a warlock might deal with fiends and work to outwit them to the benefit of others (hence their alignment restriction).

These laws that are or aren't followed don't necessarily represent laws as we know them. To add to Spooky's post, a Lawful Evil character would go against his order if it contradicted his personal code. An LE racial supremacist might never lay a hand on someone of their own race, no matter the situation, but kill others with impunity, while a NE would also kill kin if they're in the way, while CE would probably just use the situation to stab as many people as they can.

I like to play the law/chaos axis as representing a set of conditions. The more lawful you are, the more your actions are bound by mostly self-imposed conditions or rules.
Last edited by MadSeer on Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
MadSeer
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 2:31 am
Location: Canada, Qc.

Re: The Roleplay Support Thread

Unread post by MadSeer »

How much time do you typically give someone to back out of the conversation after setting them hostile (which to me shows absolute clear intent)? PVPs can be very much determined by the first move, but rather than an initiative roll its usually just whoever decides the RP is done first.
¨

I haven't engaged in PvP in quite some time, but it's one of the few situations where I'd rather make things clear OOC beforehand, especially since we're bound by clunky mechanics (or if RP fighting, then making sure we have a set of base rules to go by to determine the outcome). I think it can be worth it to make sure it's clear for everyone to confirm you just gave the RP out option. Going OOC can break some of the immersion, but less so than spending X amount of time trying to sort out any misunderstandings afterward.
User avatar
gedweyignasia
Custom Content
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:27 pm
Location: EST/UTC-4
Contact:

Re: The Roleplay Support Thread

Unread post by gedweyignasia »

SpookySkeleton wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:47 pm Character(s) : Laila


Feedback Requested : PVP Etiquette

Relatively new here -- I've already been in a few PVP scraps which I've really enjoyed, but sometimes I have a hard time navigating the beginning RP. Here's a few questions regarding that :

How much time do you typically give someone to back out of the conversation after setting them hostile (which to me shows absolute clear intent)? PVPs can be very much determined by the first move, but rather than an initiative roll its usually just whoever decides the RP is done first.

What do you do if you think their "RP out" is not sufficient? If they merely walk away when you have some sort of demand for them, how do you reconcile that with your own personal RP?

Finally, other than things that are clearly stated in PVP rules, does anyone have caveats for me regarding PVP? I know it can be a point of contention and I don't want to ruin anyone's fun. Bonus points if its based on a PVP we actually had :)
PVP etiquette is pretty easy! If you want to be as considerate as possible: Give them an RP out before setting them hostile. Set hostile when it becomes clear they're not backing down, then give another RP out. If the player gives any indication they don't want to PVP, take that to be an RP out, even if it's a somewhat disappointing conclusion, such as their character walking away. It's important to treat PVP as an opt-in RP tool/dynamic, not a means of coercion.

You should interpret someone declining PVP with a "weak" opt-out as a strong hint that your RP is not going over well with the person you're playing with and consider trying a different approach.
User avatar
gedweyignasia
Custom Content
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:27 pm
Location: EST/UTC-4
Contact:

Re: The Roleplay Support Thread

Unread post by gedweyignasia »

MadSeer wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:27 pm
How much time do you typically give someone to back out of the conversation after setting them hostile (which to me shows absolute clear intent)? PVPs can be very much determined by the first move, but rather than an initiative roll its usually just whoever decides the RP is done first.
¨

I haven't engaged in PvP in quite some time, but it's one of the few situations where I'd rather make things clear OOC beforehand, especially since we're bound by clunky mechanics (or if RP fighting, then making sure we have a set of base rules to go by to determine the outcome). I think it can be worth it to make sure it's clear for everyone to confirm you just gave the RP out option. Going OOC can break some of the immersion, but less so than spending X amount of time trying to sort out any misunderstandings afterward.
This. Going OOC and being very kind/understanding there will really improve your PVP experiences.
User avatar
Almarea90
Forum Moderator
Posts: 918
Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:26 am

Re: The Roleplay Support Thread

Unread post by Almarea90 »

MadSeer wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:22 pm My thoughts on alignments:

A lawful character will adhere to a very specific doctrine or set of rules, while a chaotic character is a lot more flexible on what he will or will not do. A Lawful Good warrior might never break his word, a Neutral Good character would be reticent, but he'd break his promise if it was for the greater good, while a Chaotic Good might not give a single crap about a past promise if his feelings on the person or situation has changed.

Paladins will follow a strict doctrine from which they won't stray, a warlock might deal with fiends and work to outwit them to the benefit of others (hence their alignment restriction).

These laws that are or aren't followed don't necessarily represent laws as we know them. To add to Spooky's post, a Lawful Evil character would go against his order if it contradicted his personal code. An LE racial supremacist might never lay a hand on someone of their own race, no matter the situation, but kill others with impunity, while a NE would also kill kin if they're in the way, while CE would probably just use the situation to stab as many people as they can.

I like to play the law/chaos axis as representing a set of conditions. The more lawful you are, the more your actions are bound by mostly self-imposed conditions or rules.
I like this definition. I agree that having a chaotic character, especially a good one doesn't mean playing an anarchist. I like the idea that, even if you play a chaotic character, there might be some circumstances (people or institution they respect) where they wouldn't break their word, even if that places them closer to neutral than pure chaotic.
Edelgarde Spades - Guide of Candlekeep and Deneirrath priest, still a Disney princess in the wrong tale.

Gleam of the Firefly - In your darkest hour, look for the firefly

Auntie Ed's Wands(TM): Saving the Coast one Protection from Evil at time.

Candlekeep Public Collection Reference
User avatar
Winterborne
Posts: 520
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:03 pm
Location: US (EST)

Re: The Roleplay Support Thread

Unread post by Winterborne »

SpookySkeleton wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:47 pm
What do you do if you think their "RP out" is not sufficient? If they merely walk away when you have some sort of demand for them, how do you reconcile that with your own personal RP?

Finally, other than things that are clearly stated in PVP rules, does anyone have caveats for me regarding PVP? I know it can be a point of contention and I don't want to ruin anyone's fun. Bonus points if its based on a PVP we actually had :)
The best advice I can give on PvP regarding the rules on RP outs is the following:

By the rules, you must oblige a RP out even if you find it personally disappointing or unfulfilling. There's also some people who just will never PvP at all no matter what for whatever reason. This is something that some folks struggle with, especially those who are actively looking for PvP - and I've seen it lead to situations where there was tension or problems because the more someone tried to invite PvP situations over and over, there's always going to be some sort of risk that someone is going to interpret the repeated rebuffed attempts to draw a fight out of someone as baiting and get frustrated by them.

I basically agree with ged here where it's suggested to give a RP out well before toggling hostile (I personally only go hostile after the RP out has been soundly rejected but I also very rarely have engaged in PvP.). The more chances you give someone in terms of RP outs the more likely it is for everyone to be on the same page if there's a disagreement.

Additionally I think a message OOC before hostile intent is even declared will go a long way in terms of making intentions clear to the other party. It can show the person you're playing with that you're thinking of them and it reinforces that even if things are getting heated IC the whole thing is just roleplay. This is obviously something people should know but it's unfortunately not always the case - getting lost in the heat of the moment just happens to people sometimes. A friendly message OOC can be a reminder that it's just a game and keep someone wanting to go forward with the storytelling.
Nathan Goldenmane - Guardian of Ilmater's Sanctuary, Mercy's Blade

Steward and Head of Business, House Darius -
chad878262
QC Coordinator
Posts: 9334
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:55 pm

Re: The Roleplay Support Thread

Unread post by chad878262 »

I will play along here, though I am not certain how many I interacted with frequent the forums or would wish to comment regarding any RP or other interactions, but here goes:

Character: Clinton Smythe

Feedback requested: Overall RP and enjoyment of interacting with the character. What did you enjoy? What didn't you? Were there any actions, discussions, emotes or otherwise that made you confused or question the character in an IC or OOC way?

Clint is a roguish merc, kind of a 'selfish' Neutral Evil, not really doing evil for evil's sake, and by no means an outright jerk who steals candy from baby's. However, he is very much an opportunist and a pragmatist who will take advantage of any situation so at times there may have been folks who thought of him as more of a neutral or even good PC. I see alignment as an overall gauge. There is good and evil in everyone, just as their are differing measures for every individual about laws, freedoms, personal codes, etc. In the case of Clint he is not going to wrong someone just to do it, there has to be a clear desirable outcome for him to do so. It is the *willingness* to do so if it benefits him at the expense of another that made me chose the Neutral Evil alignment for him. I'd be interested to hear if any of this ever came across to those he interacted with at all. I haven't been in game much in the past few weeks and probably won't be for another month due to work/youth sports/general life stuff going on, but when I start back I may try one of a few other concepts that have been tumbling around in my head so I suppose it is a good time to do some evaluation on where I get things mostly right and where I may want to go for a different approach in my interactions.

Good thread and a fun read, cheers!
Chord Silverstrings - Bard and OSR Squire / Tarent Nefzen - Arcane Wand Merchant and Master Alchemist / Irrace Arkentlar - Drow Adventurer / Finneaus Du'Veil - Gem Merchant and Executive Officer of SCCE

Tarent's Wands and Elixirs

A Wand Crafter's guide to using wands
User avatar
Steve
Recognized Donor
Posts: 7894
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:42 am
Location: Paradise in GMT +1

Re: The Roleplay Support Thread

Unread post by Steve »

Since some are discussing PvP and related etiquette, I thought to jump in and suggest considering the difference of experience when we call it/consider it PvP (player vs. player) or if we call it/consider it CvC (character vs. character). I find it an important distinction.

I realize PvP is a gaming industry term, but it is considered a gaming experience when 2+ players compete against each other. And this is what seems most problematic—D&D is designed to be a collaborative gaming experience, not one in which to compete against other players. Additionally, NWN2 is a very poor choice of a game to use for Player skill since it relies HEAVILY on mechanical dominance, easily be abused by experienced players against newbies.

So how to you have good conflict gaming experience?

That is where rephrasing it to Character vs. Character (CvC) can be extremely helpful. If you literally label it and consider it as 2+ Characters facing conflict, it removes the gaming experience away from conflict with another Player(s), and hopefully, this conceptual stance means you can work WITH the other Player and not against them (assuring a satisfactory experience on both sides, which does often require some OOC communication). Character vs. Character gaming also opens up the conflict Role-play possibilities far and beyond just what can occur mechanically, where actually Role-play, time, experience, storybuilding, etc. can all contribute to the "conflict," and to the enjoyment of everyone involved.

Is there a perfect way to CvC with others? I think that is hard to say because we all find different amounts of reward from Role-play, and CvC should first and foremost be about RP. It is also important to remember that setting Hostile is an OOC action. Our Characters do not experience this flick of a switch. It is necessary for the Mechanics to work between the Powers of the 2+ PCs facing hostility. The hostility itself needs to be emoted, clear RP towards or building of the moment of conflict—in words and/or actions. If you do not think it is clear between all the Players involved, then as has been suggested by others, reach out via OOC methods.

ARTHAYER ZORASTRYL — A Magistrati & Magefriend [Bio] * [The Wanderings of...]
PANLOS PAWFOOT — The Essential Nature of...
ERMMAR STONESORROW — Cavestalker of the Darkshard Deviants. Herb Trader.
Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”