Cult of Tiamat

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The Whistler
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Cult of Tiamat

Unread post by The Whistler »

With the advent of the CoT as both a plot device and a player-run guild, is it possible that we'll get to see the Dragon Disciple class re introduced into the game ? Or Tiamat and Bahamut added as deity choices for players ? Discuss.
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flipside43
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Re: Cult of Tiamat

Unread post by flipside43 »

I don't think Bahamut regains his powers until Time of Troubles? I remember Tiamat beats him by a few years.
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BigJ
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Re: Cult of Tiamat

Unread post by BigJ »

The Whistler wrote:is it possible that we'll get to see the Dragon Disciple class re introduced into the game?
I usually just roll with the majority but I want raise the following topics for discussion (For background, when I was relatively new to PW's I played an NWN1 server with all colour RDD's available, given the power of the class it meant seeing a rainbow of scales as you wandered around)

1) This class draws a lot of power and regular builders alike, you will see a lot of them. Maybe remove the wings option so not to break immersion?

2) Maybe a nerf? This class will be the goto dip for STR gish builds (For 4 levels you get +4 Str which stacks, +2 ac (stacks), Fort + Will save, D12hp), or the goto class for standard melee builds with a sorc or bard dip (for 10 lvls, +8 str, +2con, +2cha & int (Start with 11int, still qualify for CE + ICE), +4ac, immunity to sleep/paralysis/fire, spot skill, blind fight and complete (sorc) or part (bard) access to arcane scrolls and wands without using UMD)

3) Delete the Dragon Warrior class? This was meant to represent dragon cultists, but why take this class compared to an RDD?

I know its cool to have dragon blood and wings, been there done that. But therein lies the problem, not the considered RP'er who reads forums and puts time into research, but the majority of players who dont read forums and will just see a cool class to roll up and run fly around the FAI with.

Discuss.

BigJ

(PS. Don't hate me dragon lovers :P, I will most likely roll with the majority as I said, I just like RDD's / Half-dragons to be rare and mysterious and not see wings everywhere).
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The Whistler
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Re: Cult of Tiamat

Unread post by The Whistler »

DDs don't attain dragon apotheosis until level 10. I think the community will regulate itself when it comes to snowflakes showing their ugly scaled mugs around civilized areas. I know my barbarian would love to hunt down some dragon mutants and mount their wings as trophies inside his mancave.

The presumed power of the DD class is grossly exaggerated. Bards stand to gain much more from dipping into rogue for EW, BG for EDM or cleric for both instead of going 4 RDD for 2AB, 2-3 extra damage and 2 AC. As for the rest of the arcane gishes, they are already hard-pressed to combine a decent AB with a 25+ CL to even consider DD. But more experienced builders are welcome to prove me wrong by suggesting a broken DD build.

No argument there, the DW will lose much of its flavor if the DD is introduced. It would have to be given a considerable boost in power (extra natural AC ?) to be considered over the DD.
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mrm3ntalist
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Re: Cult of Tiamat

Unread post by mrm3ntalist »

There was a discussion going on in the QC forums about bringing DD in game. However, the PRC will be nothing like the one of the MotB. Well, the name will be the same.
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The Whistler
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Re: Cult of Tiamat

Unread post by The Whistler »

What were the proposed changes ?
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mrm3ntalist
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Re: Cult of Tiamat

Unread post by mrm3ntalist »

The Whistler wrote:What were the proposed changes ?
Spell casting progression, low BAB and nerfed ability gains among others. Nothing concrete yet though.
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Maecius
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Re: Cult of Tiamat

Unread post by Maecius »

I'd love to see Tiamat in as a selectable deity, given that the first official BG:TSCC metacampaign (the "Nemesis of the Gods" campaign back in 2011) centered on her revival. :P

We actually had a pretty big deity project going on QC-side back in 2014. It included additions like Tiamat, the entire Mulhorandi pantheon (written up by Valefort), several demon lords and devils (written up by dzidek1983), and several others like Moander and Ibrandul. But at the time, we did not have the technical know-how or the admin activity to add deities to the server (or to create icons for them).

But now we have a lot of technical know-how, and an Art Team, hmmmm . . .

Might have to go bump that old thread!
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Re: Cult of Tiamat

Unread post by Randall »

Maecius wrote:I'd love to see Tiamat in as a selectable deity, given that the first official BG:TSCC metacampaign (the "Nemesis of the Gods" campaign back in 2011) centered on her revival. :P
:'( :'(

Good times.
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Sun Wukong
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Re: Cult of Tiamat

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

Maecius wrote:We actually had a pretty big deity project going on QC-side back in 2014. It included additions like Tiamat, the entire Mulhorandi pantheon (written up by Valefort), several demon lords and devils (written up by dzidek1983), and several others like Moander and Ibrandul. But at the time, we did not have the technical know-how or the admin activity to add deities to the server (or to create icons for them).
Image

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Nwn2_deities.2da <= Information on the deities.2da, a start.
http://www.nexusmods.com/neverwinter2/mods/931/? <= A tlk editor.

As for icons, have you actually looked at the gallery section on these forums? You should be able to get icons by just asking and specifying dimension and the file type. I mean, the new PRCs added in 2014 came with custom icons.

As for admin activity, there actually was. PRCs were getting added and then fixed and areas were updated all the time. Even something as miniscule as the appearance changer had changes done to it.

If you want to blame the lack of implementation on something, it is nothing more than the good old BGTSCC bureaucracy in action, coupled with how everything is actually done with triple layer of secrecy so that the left hand doesn't even know where to look for the right hand.



Honestly... If you need help with something, just ask for it. You do not have to wait in silence and hope that the right kind of help gets magically offered.



I suppose this is enough forums for me.
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Maecius
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Re: Cult of Tiamat

Unread post by Maecius »

Comments Only wrote:If you want to blame the lack of implementation on something, it is nothing more than the good old BGTSCC bureaucracy in action, coupled with how everything is actually done with triple layer of secrecy so that the left hand doesn't even know where to look for the right hand.

Honestly... If you need help with something, just ask for it. You do not have to wait in silence and hope that the right kind of help gets magically offered.
I personally wouldn't call it secrecy, or even bureaucracy, really. Most of us do this as a hobby, with "real life" professions entirely unrelated to computer technology or game design. Naturally, we do the best we can with what we have, but we're not going to put out a game with all the polish of a full-time gaming studio. Projects are going to fall through the cracks, particularly as the people who were carrying those projects leave the community or take interest in something else.

The word "bureaucracy," in particular, suggests a level of professionalism we simply lack. After my years of effort here, I'd love it if we had a working bureaucracy. :lol:

Maybe if this was a full-time job with compensation you could reasonably hold the staff to a higher standard, but nobody here is getting paid for their work. They're doing it out of love for the game and the community.

Of course, some might argue that even lacking the polish of a triple A studio, we still have here a server that's more fun (and certainly more lasting) than a lot of the games put out to market these days! After all, sometimes amateurs can produce something out of love that pros can't produce for profit. And no writer in the world can write the realistic, unpredictable, and engaging dialogue and roleplay that you guys all write with each other.

Nevertheless, I would also argue that we do ask for help when we need it. I agree that doing so is of critical importance to any volunteer-based community, and it has served us well this last year in dramatically growing our staff and the amount of expertise we have on hand.

I appreciate that you're trying to be helpful, yourself, and you have some pretty sound advice couched in the somewhat hostile language, but it hurts me to see my comments used in "support" of the narrative that there is malice or malfeasance in the staff. I know it was probably just an off-handed expression, not meant to be taken very seriously, but it's a continuation of the narrative that the server's staff is secretive and manipulative, and I just don't feel that narrative has the evidence to support it without challenge.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a technical expert, and if I misspoke on something, that's only my own ignorance and failings showing. And I apologize for that. I hope it's understood that I was simply giving my historical insight into something that related to the question being posed in this post, and that I was not trying to mislead anyone or disperse "the blame" for not implementing new deities "earlier." I certainly wouldn't have openly disclosed that we'd dropped the ball two years ago on this very subject if I was embarrassed by it. But I'm not. If we were perfect, I wouldn't be here. (It'd be a little too boring for me. :P)

I also apologize for publishing this in a public manner, and I sincerely, sincerely, hope that you don't take it as me trying to bully you or anything Comments Only. I promise you that I don't mean it like that, and I will apologize a hundred times more if you do feel this is hostile or upsetting in any way. This is more of a public, general address that you've simply given me the opportunity to make. Indeed, I would thank you for bringing it up in the first place, even offhand, as it does afford me an opportunity to address an ongoing narrative that continues to bother me: Not a narrative you have specifically invented, but something you've alluded to, as it's been going on for a long time (as far back as I can remember) -- and some people seem to have some continuing trust issues with regards to the server's staff even after multiple changes in leaderships. While we're not perfect, I also hope nobody truly thinks we're out to cause issues for our players. We obviously can't exist for very long without our players. And I'd want to address any concerns people have with either the server's staff, our way of doing things, or me personally (as I'm one of only a handful of staff members who have been on staff for pretty much all of the leadership changes over the years), rather than let misunderstandings fester unanswered. Plenty of people have left BG with a sour taste in their mouths, and while I know there's no such thing as pleasing everyone, I also don't want that for anyone if it can at all be prevented. I love this place too much to enjoy the idea of some people hating it. And I certainly don't want my post above to be taken as a reason for anyone to mistrust the server's staff.

If there are problems, and they're brought to my attention, I'm going to try to resolve them. But I'm also not going to be able to fix everything. With regards to content in particular, I'm an admin who doesn't even know how to stage an update. I'd be lost if I tried. So everyone also has to keep realistic expectations of what we can accomplish, as individuals and as a collective "staff" group, because we're never going to be a gaming utopia. Indeed, what's "a great idea" for one person might be "the worst idea in the world" for others, as has been born out by some of the more controversial content changes we've had over the last year (several of which have had both avid advocates and outspoken detractors, neither wrong or right, but both equally believing in their position).

Anyway, the long and the short of it is that I'd ask anyone with issues with the way the server's run to please bring them to me so that I can be aware of them, and, if I agree that it is an issue, try to resolve them. If I don't agree that the problem you see is a problem, I will tell you so without judgement, but at least you'll have tried to make things better for yourself or your friends (and then you can blame me for not listening instead of yourself for not saying anything). Naturally, I'd prefer specifics and examples to vague "you're doing it wrong" PMs, because "you're doing it wrong" doesn't really give me a place to start doing it right!

Edit: I realize I took this somewhat off-topic, or at least have the potential to do so with this post. I've opened this thread for the conversation I started here, so as not to derail Whistler's main subject line here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=56054
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