Scent

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Zanniej
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Scent

Unread post by Zanniej » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:14 am

I was wondering, would it be possible (and desirable) to make the scent feat work against PCs, even when they aren't set to hostile?

With other PCs it's always hard to determine whether they're friend or foe ... and it would be odd if your sense of smell wouldn't work if the creature isn't hostile to start with :-P

However, I also understand this might cause issues. Just wondering though! :)

Source:
This extraordinary special quality allows a creature to detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell. Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights.

The creature can detect opponents within 30 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 60 feet; if downwind, it drops to 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at triple normal range.

When a creature detects a scent, the exact location of the source is not revealed—only its presence somewhere within range. The creature can take a move action to note the direction of the scent.

Whenever the creature comes within 5 feet of the source, the creature pinpoints the source’s location.

A creature with the Track feat and the scent ability can follow tracks by smell, making a Wisdom (or Survival) check to find or follow a track. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10 (no matter what kind of surface holds the scent). This DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry’s odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Track feat. Creatures tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility.

Water, particularly running water, ruins a trail for air-breathing creatures. Water-breathing creatures that have the scent ability, however, can use it in the water easily.

False, powerful odors can easily mask other scents. The presence of such an odor completely spoils the ability to properly detect or identify creatures, and the base Survival DC to track becomes 20 rather than 10.
Source: https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Scent
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chad878262
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Re: Scent

Unread post by chad878262 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:19 am

I wouldn't suggest it because it does not work correctly and as it stands is completely OP. Unless someone can code some method of counterplay for sneaks (such as things designed to throw off scent and bodies of water preventing scent or giving penalties) or unless scent requires some kind of roll such as survival vs. lesser of hide/move silently it should not be made more powerful than it already is.

I previously looked in to this for one of the HDM's in my time in QC and it's really not a balanced mechanic and should not be expanded upon IMO unless it is to introduce some sort of counterplay.
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Re: Scent

Unread post by KOPOJIbPAKOB » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:22 am

The way scent works in this game would make it overpowered. When a hostile character enters stealth/becomes invisible while you have survival mode active (and have scent feat), the character model remains on your screen, which would in practice mean you're detecting sneakers by default with no skill investment. With the current scent, if you suspect someone spies on you, you can toggle them hostile through player list and see them on the minimap if your guess was right (and I wouldn't call it bad tone because spying is a hostile action).

Although, maybe as a compromise, there could be added a separate feat in addition to vanilla scent that scans area in, let's say, 15 feet from your character and tells you how many creatures are there, it sounds logical and pretty balanced.
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Re: Scent

Unread post by Zanniej » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:16 am

Fair enough. An overhaul would seem to be in order in that case. Indeed, something to cover scent, or other methods of counterplay.

Survival vs the lower of h/ms, or perhaps against disguise (disguise your smell?)
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Re: Scent

Unread post by Mallore » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:03 am

The whole way to beat scent skills to is also knowing to stand down wind which we don’t even have wind. Also a common way is to crosss water and rain. Rain would counter the skill. Just some of the numerous things the game doesn’t count for.

I think the skill is best left in the realm of role play when against players and perhaps just add some RP notes to the skill for players and DMs alike
Last edited by Mallore on Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Zanniej
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Re: Scent

Unread post by Zanniej » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:04 am

Mallore wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:03 am
The whole way to beat scent skills to is also knowing to stand down wind which we don’t even have wind. Also a common way is to crosss water and rain. Rain would counter the skill. Just some of the numerous things the game doesn’t count for.
:think: Good points.
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Re: Scent

Unread post by Winterborne » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:44 am

*Buys a bunch of pass without trace scrolls and calls it a day.*
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Re: Scent

Unread post by chad878262 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:56 am

Winterborne wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:44 am
*Buys a bunch of pass without trace scrolls and calls it a day.*
Doesn't work against Scent. If they toggle you hostile, you will show on their mini-map. Does not matter how much hide/move silently you have and does not matter what level you are or what level they are. They can have zero spot/listen/survival and they will still know your location relative to their PC from the mini-map. While this is not as good as being able to spot you, a perfected alchemist fire can ruin your day just as well as a mass AoE Wail of the Banshee or Hellball or whatever.

Point being, there is no counter to scent. There is nothing you can build that will avoid being detected if toggled hostile.
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Re: Scent

Unread post by Wyatt » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:54 am

Is there anything that grants scent besides Grey Orc/Bear Warrior? It seems fairly niche.

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Re: Scent

Unread post by Valefort » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:21 am

Not to my knowledge.
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Re: Scent

Unread post by Zanniej » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:13 am

Something to counter scent would be in order.

Either an opposing roll (but I wouldn't know what ... survival vs. survival? survival vs hide? (though hide can go much higher than survival) ) or the possibility to hide your scent, with scrolls, potions, whatever.

But if counters are in place, then I also think you should be able to sniff out other players, regardless of the hostile toggle. :-P

But counters are of greater importance than that, I think.
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Re: Scent

Unread post by izzul » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:30 am

Scent is smell.Scent assisted by survival skill. Dogs can smell very well. there are ways to cover smells from dogs

-doing a barbeque so the beef and chicken smell covers the real hidden person/item/artifact
-cover one self with Urine or Gasoline
-or anoint body with mud to keep the scent from going out of body


hide- counter with spot
movesilently - counter with listen
scent- no idea what counters smell probably some of those above
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Re: Scent

Unread post by kellendril » Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:58 am

Winterborne wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:44 am
*Buys a bunch of pass without trace scrolls and calls it a day.*
Because Pass Without Trace spell description says a person can't be detected by scent, I hear you. I've IG RPed ignoring the IG RP of an orc who said he was using scent to track me by using that spell, and we agreed it was a good counter according to the spell description. Enjoyable RP.
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Re: Scent

Unread post by nightingale » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:04 am

Foxhide armor is supposed to grant scent. It says it does, thats why I bought it, but it doesn't show the feat in my feat list, nor does it let me "use" the armor to grant scent
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