A Conclave for the Players
- Tekill
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Re: A Conclave for the Players
The issue I have always noticed with the Politics of Sshamath, as a player is that is very fractured. There are about 15 or so factions that make up the Government system of this city all with evil self interests.
I love conflict RP so ideally this is great for me.
But on a practical level it is very confusing and nearly impossible to create any organization OOC so that the conflict can occurr IC.
Then we are stuck trying to revive this dead Bureaucracy full of members that hold seats but no longer play the game anymore, and all I can do is throw up my hands.
About 15 factions all with equal say- on a part of the server where you are doing amazing to have 6 players on at any one time.
My character has a long way to go before he takes his seat on the Conclave but I have read enough and played in the UD long enough to know how hard and nuanced it is to herd UD'ers.
This creates a very large disconnect between the Government and the relatively new players to the UD trying to get a feel for things.
The mages took over the city. Since then the Lolthites have weaseled thier way into having 2 out of 13-14 seats on the Conclave, c/o House Sshamath and the Temple of Lolth. There are other powers growing in Sschamath as well, Bregan Darthe and followers of other Dark Seldarine Gods.
The mages should be worried about the fact that they are so fractured amounst themselves and that the non mage factions are creeping up on them.
There is nothing in game terms for players to promote the growth of mages in Sshamath. There are supposed to be some rules of the city on some forum somewhere that state, wizards are supposed to be on the top of the pecking order...but how is that promoted, encouraged or enforced.
Everyone has spell resistance so who gives a %##$% about the mages.
Long story short, the mage players need an edge in a city that is supposed to ruled by mages. So I thought, yes, lets create a sub-faction that us mages, regardless of our affiliations can all be a part of.
So what I am proposing is to create a Mageocracy that supports the mage schools of The Conclave to work together in the interests of all mages of Sshamath for the greater good of Sshamath as a whole.
You can choose your school, you can choose your House and religion (or they can choose you), you can be a member of any organization or cult. But if you are also interested in making sure mages are being treated properly in a city ruled by mages, then you need to help me start this faction.
To start, I will need some clarification on a couple items.
1) How does one become citizens of Sshamath?
If I am new to the city and decide I want to stay- can I just call myself a citizen being a mage, or is there a process involved. The Magocracy will need to recruit from new commers to the city. One of our goals is to make sure they are aware of the Government, the Schools, Citizenry, becoming a citizen, a member of a school and a member of The Magocracy.
2) Joining a school. I am guessing the schools are NPC run factions where the members join based on thier class, their specialization or the type of spells they favor and ranked based on thier caster level.
We will need to make it a requirement of join The Magocracy, that you will first need to commit yourself to a School. Each member of The Magocracy must put the interests of thier School first but after that they support thier fellow mages as a united front against the other powers growing in our city!
I love conflict RP so ideally this is great for me.
But on a practical level it is very confusing and nearly impossible to create any organization OOC so that the conflict can occurr IC.
Then we are stuck trying to revive this dead Bureaucracy full of members that hold seats but no longer play the game anymore, and all I can do is throw up my hands.
About 15 factions all with equal say- on a part of the server where you are doing amazing to have 6 players on at any one time.
My character has a long way to go before he takes his seat on the Conclave but I have read enough and played in the UD long enough to know how hard and nuanced it is to herd UD'ers.
This creates a very large disconnect between the Government and the relatively new players to the UD trying to get a feel for things.
The mages took over the city. Since then the Lolthites have weaseled thier way into having 2 out of 13-14 seats on the Conclave, c/o House Sshamath and the Temple of Lolth. There are other powers growing in Sschamath as well, Bregan Darthe and followers of other Dark Seldarine Gods.
The mages should be worried about the fact that they are so fractured amounst themselves and that the non mage factions are creeping up on them.
There is nothing in game terms for players to promote the growth of mages in Sshamath. There are supposed to be some rules of the city on some forum somewhere that state, wizards are supposed to be on the top of the pecking order...but how is that promoted, encouraged or enforced.
Everyone has spell resistance so who gives a %##$% about the mages.
Long story short, the mage players need an edge in a city that is supposed to ruled by mages. So I thought, yes, lets create a sub-faction that us mages, regardless of our affiliations can all be a part of.
So what I am proposing is to create a Mageocracy that supports the mage schools of The Conclave to work together in the interests of all mages of Sshamath for the greater good of Sshamath as a whole.
You can choose your school, you can choose your House and religion (or they can choose you), you can be a member of any organization or cult. But if you are also interested in making sure mages are being treated properly in a city ruled by mages, then you need to help me start this faction.
To start, I will need some clarification on a couple items.
1) How does one become citizens of Sshamath?
If I am new to the city and decide I want to stay- can I just call myself a citizen being a mage, or is there a process involved. The Magocracy will need to recruit from new commers to the city. One of our goals is to make sure they are aware of the Government, the Schools, Citizenry, becoming a citizen, a member of a school and a member of The Magocracy.
2) Joining a school. I am guessing the schools are NPC run factions where the members join based on thier class, their specialization or the type of spells they favor and ranked based on thier caster level.
We will need to make it a requirement of join The Magocracy, that you will first need to commit yourself to a School. Each member of The Magocracy must put the interests of thier School first but after that they support thier fellow mages as a united front against the other powers growing in our city!
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- Blackman D
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Re: A Conclave for the Players
well you are not wrongTekill wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:34 pm The issue I have always noticed with the Politics of Sshamath, as a player is that is very fractured. There are about 15 or so factions that make up the Government system of this city all with evil self interests.
I love conflict RP so ideally this is great for me.
But on a practical level it is very confusing and nearly impossible to create any organization OOC so that the conflict can occurr IC.
i think you are focusing too much on the part of people not being around
lets pick on (for example) Vierna Hun'viir: School of Elemental Magic, Mage, Speaking seat
all this should mean at the moment is that the School of Elemental Magic had a rep in the speaking seat - that is it; so what that means is that the School of Elemental Magic has already pledged to serve the conclave, so if you are a member in the School of Elemental Magic you just need to replace your missing rep and let the DMs know you are taking over the role - simple
now for example like pick on the School of Divination who are not on the list
if they wanted to join, just like everyone else before them and like any other faction that is not already a member, they have to formally pledge to serve the conclave and then appoint reps - literally one extra step more
you are also fixating on the number of seats for some reason idk - its not the conclave, there is no set limit other than any one faction only gets two seats
thats a people problem, the surface has it too but they also have more players - but no one wants to join what factions are already there, they want their own and thats where that problem comes in, everyone needs their own house/guild to rule over and they dont have to share power with anyone or follow someone else
its called greed, its not going away, you just need to learn to work with it or ignore it
of the three guilds ive ran/run before, all three are lore based guilds, one was an original build up and the other two were ones that were already in place and i just joined, the cult of the dragon, the thieves guild and the school of necromancy, all of them have problems of people coming and going or losing interest or w/e
dont hang up on what other people wanna do with their toons tho, you will just grow grey hair faster
...and this is exactly what The Bureaucracy is... which ive been trying to explainTekill wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:34 pm Long story short, the mage players need an edge in a city that is supposed to ruled by mages. So I thought, yes, lets create a sub-faction that us mages, regardless of our affiliations can all be a part of.
So what I am proposing is to create a Mageocracy that supports the mage schools of The Conclave to work together in the interests of all mages of Sshamath for the greater good of Sshamath as a whole.
You can choose your school, you can choose your House and religion (or they can choose you), you can be a member of any organization or cult. But if you are also interested in making sure mages are being treated properly in a city ruled by mages, then you need to help me start this faction.
To start, I will need some clarification on a couple items.
1) How does one become citizens of Sshamath?
If I am new to the city and decide I want to stay- can I just call myself a citizen being a mage, or is there a process involved. The Magocracy will need to recruit from new commers to the city. One of our goals is to make sure they are aware of the Government, the Schools, Citizenry, becoming a citizen, a member of a school and a member of The Magocracy.
2) Joining a school. I am guessing the schools are NPC run factions where the members join based on thier class, their specialization or the type of spells they favor and ranked based on thier caster level.
We will need to make it a requirement of join The Magocracy, that you will first need to commit yourself to a School. Each member of The Magocracy must put the interests of thier School first but after that they support thier fellow mages as a united front against the other powers growing in our city!
no one is saying you are wrong or your idea isnt worth it, just trying to tell you its already been done
people simply need to pick it back up and by doing so you are also not having to recreate existing logistics that go along with it, like a private forum where everyone can do their coordination and rp, there is no guild space per say but The Bureaucracy gets a room in the Stone Stave to hold meetings, and its suppose to make it easier for DMs to do things for the UD - dont need DMs to rp obviously, but when there is an issue and you are telling the conclave how you want to go about handling it, usually an event with you executing your plans might follow
everyone is evil till proven otherwise
- Rinzler
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Re: A Conclave for the Players
Tekill wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:34 pm To start, I will need some clarification on a couple items.
1) How does one become citizens of Sshamath?
If I am new to the city and decide I want to stay- can I just call myself a citizen being a mage, or is there a process involved. The Magocracy will need to recruit from new commers to the city. One of our goals is to make sure they are aware of the Government, the Schools, Citizenry, becoming a citizen, a member of a school and a member of The Magocracy.
2) Joining a school. I am guessing the schools are NPC run factions where the members join based on thier class, their specialization or the type of spells they favor and ranked based on thier caster level.
We will need to make it a requirement of join The Magocracy, that you will first need to commit yourself to a School. Each member of The Magocracy must put the interests of thier School first but after that they support thier fellow mages as a united front against the other powers growing in our city!
1. This is best answered by DMs, but the city's population is only 12,000 so I assume you would have to be born there to be a citizen.
2. I believe children who are talented wizards are able to become students of a school of their choice.
- Tekill
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Re: A Conclave for the Players
The surface has The Dukes. Ultimately they are the center of the universe up there- even if you are in Soubar or Nashkel. The decisions they make impact the entire Sword Coast. Regardless of the number of factions there are or what faction you are in, new or old, you basically have the choice to be either for them or against them.Blackman D wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:16 am thats a people problem, the surface has it too but they also have more players
In the Underdark you have The Conclave. Rulers of a city supposed to be run by Mages. You can be for or against The Conclave as a whole, but each member of The Conclave is also a leader of a House or Mage School that you can also be for or against. Each leader IS a specific and separate faction with its own self interests in mind.
The evil society versus the good society- one plays together nice and one does not. But OOC the one that does not play nice makes it hard to unite players together in groups.
From my original post:
Members of The Bureaucracy, per the list provided in this thread:
Non-Mages or Zhents?!
Wirg Bunegrynder: Bregan D'aerthe, Leader of the Brute Forces, Silent seat
Lomith Zau'afin: Qu'ellar Zau'afin, Ilharess, Speaking seat
Kren'zar Faerzhind: The Zhentarim, Mage, Speaking seat
Aniarithe Zau'afin: Qu'ellar Zau'afin, Qu'el'faeress, Silent Seat
Zhax'ar: Bregan D'aerthe, Lieutenant, Speaking Seat
Mages
L' Beldroin: School of Necromancy, High Necromancer, Speaking seat
Uelaereene Sai'zzel: School of Invocation and Evocation, Fahliel, Speaking seat
Imyvor Vesche: School of Conjuration and Summoning, Mage, Speaking Seat
Vierna Hun'viir: School of Elemental Magic, Mage, Speaking seat
Jarven Myrae: School of Mages, Mage, Speaking Seat
The Bureaucracy puts everyone in the same room, a 50/50 split between mages and non mages. They represent the interests of their own factions under the guise of serving The Conclave.
The Magocracy puts only the mages in the same room. With a great bias and even prejudice towards non mages we are going to discuss mage stuff to the betterment of mages only. Naturally, being an evil society the Magocracy will be corrupt and infiltrated by non mage interests...but that creates the conflict and intrigue I so very much like.
The difference between the two isn't just that one is exclusively Mage only. All the Non-Mages of The Bureaucracy have Factions they belong to and they represent the interests of these factions. The mages involved often belonging to these these Non-Mage Factions as well. The remaining mages, not belonging to a house or the Zhents or BD are part of one of like 12 non-player faction based schools which again, is just too fractured to organize as a solid and regular player group.
This is supposed to be a Mage run city- yet there is no player run mage factions or organizations to represent the interests of the Mage City and its Mage government. That is the disconnect.
The Magocracy is NOT
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- Rinzler
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Re: A Conclave for the Players
Technically, Zhax’ar is a mage of the school of necromancy just not an official member of that guild
- Tekill
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Re: A Conclave for the Players
My apologies to Zhar'ar for dragging him through the mud. I have shamed him, the School of Necromancy and most importantly I shamed myself. I swear by all that is unholy, that I will make it right! I WILL MAKE IT RIGHT!!!!Technically, Zhax’ar is a mage of the school of necromancy just not an official member of that guild
Anyways moving on...
I usually play outsiders in the UD- Rockrun citizens, non drow, or at best, orphan non wizard commoners. This is my first crack at RPing a character in the Inner Circle. It has given my over active imagination a lot go with- which is why I play.
So in my mind, as a solution to the Fractured school faction system in place I think the Magocracy as a missing piece of the whole Sshamath Mage run Governmental system. I think with the growing influences of non-mage factions- it would a natural and logical next step for the Mages to want to find ways to band together.
Now, If it were the case that the mages firmly hold their positions, or have a false sense of security, in their position in the city then a new Magocracy faction could be seen as a bunch of unnecessary upstarts.
For now I think I should see how this all plays out in game. I Really need to meet more of the mage players first.
It think in the end Blackman D is correct in what he is saying. So, I will try to see if I can do my part to continue to promote the efforts of The Bureaucracy because in the end, it has the best potential to include the greatest number of players. Player's being the most valuable resource.
If anyone wants to meet up in game for some Mage related RP, Please let me know. Especially anyone from The School of Mages. Necromancy, or TransmutionI think I will be attempting to join one of these schools.
Last edited by Tekill on Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Steve
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Re: A Conclave for the Players
Magic Might Equals Right.
Anything else is just...so unDrow, and probably an OOC device so that one isn’t playing alone.
The most powerful mage dictates until knocked off. All others suck up and manipulate position under this hierarchy, angling for the top.
It’s a Drow eat Drow world. Bureaucracy is for the weak. Or at least, what has any bureaucracy done for you and me lately?!?
Just my 2 cents. Willing to prove my point IG!!!
Anything else is just...so unDrow, and probably an OOC device so that one isn’t playing alone.
The most powerful mage dictates until knocked off. All others suck up and manipulate position under this hierarchy, angling for the top.
It’s a Drow eat Drow world. Bureaucracy is for the weak. Or at least, what has any bureaucracy done for you and me lately?!?
Just my 2 cents. Willing to prove my point IG!!!
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- Blackman D
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Re: A Conclave for the Players
if you want a mage only guild then there is nothing wrong with that, i would say the school of mages is that but im sure they take non mages too just like most other schools because mages cant do everything themselves even tho they try
i think that would also be back peddling too tho since UD factions have always been at each others throats anyway with not really having a common focus like most evil guilds have problems with - The Bureaucracy gave that common focus to try to get UDers to play nice with each other even if its for a short while before they go back to undermining one another
but by all means go for it and see how it plays out, it wouldnt be the first guild of extremist
you never asked
im not sure i would call the school systems fractured, its just that there is one for each specialization and not a huge population in the UD, and then you add on to the fact that there are plenty of mages who are not apart of the schools but apart of their own house while a few who are in a house also join one of the schoolsTekill wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:28 pm So in my mind, as a solution to the Fractured school faction system in place I think the Magocracy as a missing piece of the whole Sshamath Mage run Governmental system. I think with the growing influences of non-mage factions- it would a natural and logical next step for the Mages to want to find ways to band together.
Now, If it were the case that the mages firmly hold their positions, or have a false sense of security, in their position in the city then a new Magocracy faction could be seen as a bunch of unnecessary upstarts.
but again even then, most of the schools are not exclusive to only mage members, they all need those supporting roles to take hits to the face so they can free cast in the back
everyone is evil till proven otherwise