Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

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Theodore01
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by Theodore01 »

Made my first round in oghrann ruins/temple with the now crippled wis-monk of lousy death.

As expected the death attack is totally pointless, as every creature there had more base fortitude than my char. DC of 24.
And enemies getting a D20 roll + fort vs my DC only.
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by Kalgain »

Motld is now more underpowered than the pervious motld was overpowered, thus I expect the motld to be changed at some point in the future. I am wondering if I should RCR right now or wait until the motld will be balanced.
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by matelener »

The changes are now live.

For the next update, I'll be looking at some QoL improvements for the MotlD active abilities, give them neat animations and ensure they play well.

However, If you expect a substantial buff, don't hold your breath.
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

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Grendunor wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:12 pm
:lol: Great song.
A Hateful Drow wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:14 pm
matelener wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:00 pm The changes are now live.

For the next update, I'll be looking at some QoL improvements for the MotlD active abilities, give them neat animations and ensure they play well.

However, If you expect a substantial buff, don't hold your breath.
Don't worry, we know we should just delete our monks of the long death.
I'm not deleting mine!
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

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Grendunor wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:12 pm
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

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A Hateful Drow wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:29 pmI don't know, I've talked to some people that said it's too much and we thinking that it's even worse to take the kit than not to take it.
Then... don't... take... it?
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

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If you arent asking a question or answering a question, refrain from posting here.

This forum is to offer information related to upcoming changes.

Trolling will not be tolerated. Thanks!
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

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A Hateful Drow wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:29 pm I don't know, I've talked to some people that said it's too much and we thinking that it's even worse to take the kit than not to take it.
I think that promotes choice and build variance. Hunter for instance is a great class kit, not the greatest to take on a pure ranger, but very powerful on a ranger dip. Before for monk of the long death, if you went over 16 monk, there was no reason mechanically NOT to take the class kit, which I'm pretty sure is not how the class kits were designed.

If you think the changes were too much, what would you suggest? Given your own claims of soloing the white dragon without taking a hit (with elixirs), it's pretty evident the build was too powerful for the server, so needed some sort of change.

I should add that MotLD (after nerf) on a pure monk isn't even bad, you're still capable of reaching 53-57 AC unbuffed and 39 AB (with flurry and EW). You still do the same amount of damage if they don't have adamantine DR, just one less attack per round. You can cap out at 70 AC still and like 47 AB with the proper buffs (no short term stuff). So I'm not really sure where the notion of "too much" came from, are you just unsure whether you're build can win every pvp and solo the white dragon (hitless) anymore? Join the rest of us. :D
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by Kalgain »

Making it balanced is very simple. Leave greater flurry.

Not counting all the flavour skills that don't matter in combat the effective change is:


- 8+3*2+5=19 skill points
- adamantine fists

+2 ac (not applicable when using elixirs or having a proper group with a druid)

-------------------------------------------------

As I pointed out before, losing greater flurry is worse than losing +5 AB

If this balance needs to be tilted a bit less in favor of motld one could think about removing quivering palm.
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

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Going to test this today. thanks for the change.
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by EasternCheesE »

Currently, when new MotLD is live, thus all the exploits of old MotLD are not available, lemme share you a dozen of info how it was vs how it should have been:

1) MotLD had an AC bug that effectively turned it's 3 AC into 6 AC permanently. Double AC bug. Moreover, if someone just relogged/crossed server, they got triple AC bug. Yup. That 3 -> 9 AC. A bit more about it. Monk AC (wis and monk) are untyped AC. Means, it doesn't get removed on both sneak attack and RTA. MotLD had it's ac set to exactly same type, which meant, monk's AC (assuming monk 30 and 30 wis) could never under any circumstances go below 10 + 10 + 6 + 6/9 = 32/35 AC, no matter the attack source.

2) While MotLD stated that it doesn't progress monk flurry, fists etc, in fact, it did, thus, taking monk 5/ motld 10/ then monk 1 would have given everything monk 16 should get. MotLD did only not give those features, but it still was counted towards requirements for them, so they were received right the next monk level one takes. So, having "monk 5/motld 10/ monk 5 again /some PRC 10" shouldn't have been giving people anything that monk >10 should have got. Surely, it's not an issue for pure monk/motld, since they'd have monk 20 anyway.

While these are just two, we can see how extra 6 AC and not locking anything served making good balanced class into "My PvP machine". Guys, you really got your expectations set very high, that's why you feel it was nerfed badly. But i just ran around with my QC monk. It's different now. And it's way more how it should have been, you just compare to broken OP kit you had for long and there is no blame on you upon that.

Just, please, if you want things changed and don't like the update, try to run around with it, look unbiased, give us pros and cons. If you don't like g. flurry being removed, please give constructive suggestions on MotLD rebalance so 1) LD in it's name mean more 2) It doesn't get that imbalanced broken thing it was before. We don't bite and we are open to well-argumented suggestions, after all. Just please, don't start that "imma can't make a monk powerbuild" again.. We know that and it was said thousand times that while we don't deny people to powerbuild, it's not the sort of gameplay we are focused on. We try to make classes balanced, niche and having their RP flavor rather than just making options for "I'm Mary Sue, i go and kill things".
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by Rain »

EasternCheesE wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 5:01 am
Just, please, if you want things changed and don't like the update, try to run around with it, look unbiased, give us pros and cons. If you don't like g. flurry being removed, please give constructive suggestions on MotLD rebalance so 1) LD in it's name mean more 2) It doesn't get that imbalanced broken thing it was before. We don't bite and we are open to well-argumented suggestions, after all. Just please, don't start that "imma can't make a monk powerbuild" again.. We know that and it was said thousand times that while we don't deny people to powerbuild, it's not the sort of gameplay we are focused on. We try to make classes balanced, niche and having their RP flavor rather than just making options for "I'm Mary Sue, i go and kill things".
I see what your saying here but from the minority perspective of being a power-builder myself I don't think this is true. (And alot of the community won't like this but I don't care.) The center-fold of why spells, classes and abilities are even changed, updated and reverted in the first place are largely due to the power-building community. While you might say that the community doesn't deny power-builders, it is the those same power-builders that take the time to do the math and find those powerful combinations to begin with and thus are the prime reason 80% of the changes even happen. It is also our own creations (power-builders) that people witness then proceed to call us out for power-building then throw it at the team to get the builds and combinations WE construct nerfed to fit this "niche" your talking about. The directive of power-creep in the server is lead by a certain community of people on the server who do the work to find the things that are strong or broken, are shunned for playing what is strong and broken but are also denied entry to the part of the community who makes and test the decisions for those same mechanics they found.

Here are some examples:

Bard: Song of Requiem Nerf - Happened because a powerbuilder decided to display the power of the ability by running around NAKED soloing bosses that the vast majority of the server could not even fathom tackling solo at the time.

Druid / Spirit Shaman: Flame Blade Nerf - Happened because a powerbuilder decided to take the spell into a MEELE COMBAT tournament held near Soubar by the Ebon Blade. Ended up winning with the spell over all the other combatants who were using regular melee weapons and winning what was told to me to be 300bags of gold. (This one I say was just smart thinking by that player.)

Monk Ki Step Nerf - Happened because a powerbuilder decided to show a video of how advantageous Ki step can be in combination with Ghost Step and Hide and Plain Sight. Allowing for a high use of sneak attacks with little opening in PVP only (Which yes made it a top PVP contender at the time.). But had plenty of flaws in PVE that brought it to below average standards compared to some other powerhouse builds that could do more.

________________________________

I could list these out all day but at the end of the day nothing I say will change anything. But to sum up my words: This server has always been catered to Anti-Powerbuilding yet powerbuilders are the leading cause of nerfs and the forefront of mechanical discovery and basic build combinations in the community and are largely denied by the majority of the community for their opinions and denied a place on most of the official parts of the community team to be beneficial to the community. Thus people always seem to be confused why powerbuilders would rather make something powerful and just play a character based off of it anyway at least we can have some fun doing that. But sooner or later you'll enter a party with others or GOD FORBID get into PVP with other players and be swamped with a wall of green text or PM's stating that your character is to powerful and we need to have a more "RP" mindset.
Last edited by Rain on Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

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I think the backstory is missing here: MotLD was broken from its initial implementation. It’s even easy to see that by the fact when it came online, no one even knew what it really did, good or bad (maybe better to say balanced or unbalanced).

Thus, it was a broken kit that shouldn’t have been released in the first place.

As well, thank the lord Ao FOR powerbuilders! They essentially work out the imbalances FOR the community, regardless if unintentional. But at the end of the day, it IS beneficial to disallow through “nerfing” those mechanics that are used to manipulate IC RP.

Building for max power is great—it’s fun and it created community between players who share the interest, as well, does help those players that cannot do it themselves. That said, THE GAME shouldn’t be about who has the most pwning build, so that RP can be dictated.

And THAT, imho, is why some things need to be balanced and get nerfed.

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Re: Coming next update: Monk of the Long Death changes

Unread post by EasternCheesE »

Just a small note to those who managed to read that message full of hasty emotional things i wrote and then deleted. My apologies.
I will look at this tomorrow, when i can think more clearly. I had a bad day today and i just should stay away from tough discussions happening before i say more things i am going to regret about.
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