Coming Soon: Epic Spell and Magic Updates

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Coming Soon: Epic Spell and Magic Updates

Unread post by Rhifox »

In the next patch, several changes are being made to epic spells to make them act closer to standard spellcasting and epic spellcasting rules. Several epic spells have also been rebalanced. These changes bring up some of the weaker epic spells while bringing down some of the more powerful ones.

- Epic spells now use the caster's proper spell DCs, instead of a static epic spell DC. This may be a small decrease in DC for some low DC casters (as there is no longer a flat +5 epic spell bonus), but for high CL casters, and casters with spell focus feats, players will now be able to have the appropriate DC for what is effectively level 10 spells. The calculation is identical to all other spells, with epic spells being considered as level 10 spells: 10 + 10 + ability modifier + epic CL modifier + other modifiers. Epic Call Lightning Storm will still include its bonus DC.

- Hellball is now full rainbow, and includes 10d6 Cold damage on top of its other damage types. This gives it a total of 50d6 damage instead of 40. In addition, Hellball now has a Tremendous range (up from Huge). However, there is a 5% chance of the mage suffering a 10d6 backlash due to the chaotic power of the hellball.

- Epic Call Lightning Storm now does 40d6 damage, up from 35d6.

- Damnation now has an additional +5 to its DC. However, its death effect is now blocked by dimension anchor/lock, as it is a teleportation spell. Only the death effect is affected by this lock, all other effects continue to work as normal. If the death effect is blocked, the spell is treated as if the target had failed its saving throw.

- Vampiric Feast now has the Death descriptor and obeys death immunity, like Avasculate, and it now only affects living targets, but its shadow is now 20 HD instead of 9, with significantly better stats and a new appearance (One-of-Many model).

- Entropic Husk now has the Death descriptor and obeys death immunity, but its range has increased from small to medium. EffectInsanity has also been adjusted to make it less likely the mob will focus on the caster.

- Epic Mass Heal now also removes many status effects and ability damage alongside its healing.

- Dragon Knight now benefits from summon-buffing feats (eg Spell Focus Conjuration or Beckon the Frozen). Dragon Knight will also last for 50 rounds, up from 30. Dragon Disciples and Dragon Warriors casting this spell have doubled duration. Dragon Knight dragons will also cast their spells at CL 20.

- Epic spell descriptions have been updated to more accurately reflect their epic spellcasting design. They list what seeds are used in their construction, and some descriptions have been updated to accommodate this.

- Epic spells are no longer restricted by caster class, as defined by epic spellcasting rules. This is one of the perks of epic spells. However, Epic Mass Heal requires an investment of 24 points in Lore: Religion in order to be taken by non-divine mages, due to using the Heal sead.

- Warlocks can now qualify for their epic spells at the appropriate invocation level, regardless of their multiclassing.

Other Magic Changes

- Attune Staff: All mages now receive the Attune Staff feat, which allows them to use their own caster level when using Cast Spell: X from quarterstaffs. This should make spell staffs are much more valuable addition to a mage's loadout. A UMD check must be made to attune a staff that is restricted to other classes. This check is made on top of the baseline UMD needed to use class-restricted items. If the check fails, you cannot attune another staff until the next reset. Paladins, rangers, and warlocks also receive Attune Staff, but paladins and rangers are treated as half their CL (as in, equivalent to their pnp caster levels), while warlocks always have to make the UMD check to attune a staff (as all staffs use spells, not invocations).

- EffectConfusion and EffectInsanity now work closer to pnp. Confused creatures to have a 10% chance to attack the caster, 10% chance to act normally, 30% chance to wander aimlessly, 20% chance to run away from the caster, and 30% chance to attack the nearest creature. Insane creatures have a 10% chance to attack the caster, 20% chance to wander aimlessly, 10% chance to run away from the caster, and 60% chance to attack the nearest creature. In addition, when the random check causes them to attack the closest target, they will prioritize NPCs before attacking players. This should make these effects a little more reliable.

- Updated Spells
-- Chaos: Chaos now uses EffectInsanity instead of EffectConfusion.

-- Primal Speed: Primal Speed now lasts 24 hours. It is mutually-exclusive with Haste-effects, though.

-- Dragon Scales: Dragon Scales has been changed to level 3 and renamed Dragonskin. It provides Natural AC at a similar progression to Spiderskin, along with 5-20 DR to a specific energy type based on which dragon you choose when casting the spell (acid (green), electricity (blue), fire (red), cold (white)). Characters with the Draconic heritage gain an additional 1 AC from this spell. Dragonskin lasts 10 minutes per level and can only be used on the caster.

-- Eyes of the Oracle now provides +2 to AC and saves naturally, increasing to +3 if the character has the Draconic heritage feat.

-- Firestride Exhalation now works closer to pnp. You have the choice when casting the spell to use it simply as a fire cone, or to teleport forwards a short distance during the spell's effect.

-- Light spell has a new 'Bright White' option. This option is already available through the 'No Choice' option, but it will now be more clear for players that feel they need this increased lighting effect.

- New Spells
-- Insanity: Insanity is a level 7 sorcerer/wizard spell that casts confusion against a single target. This spell is permanent.

-- Life Ward: Life Ward is a level 4 cleric/favored soul spell that protects a target against positive energy. While this has the obvious effect of protecting undead from heal spells, Life Ward also has an offensive use. Any creature under the effect of Life Ward is immune to all positive energy, including friendly healing spells. If Life Ward is cast against an enemy, that enemy gets a Will save to negate the effect.

- Animate Plants: Animate Plants is a level 7 druid/spirit shaman spell that summons 3+ plant creatures of 8-12 HD for 1 round per level. Alternatively, the spell can be used to cast a heightened entangle.

- New and Updated Magic Functions
-- Descriptors and Subschools have been added to spells, and Deity Alignment has been added to deities. These have limited effect right now, but will be used for expanding the magic system to operate more closely with pnp rules, and make it simpler to make spells and effects interact with each other without having to program in individual exceptions. As an example, the new Life Ward spell checks if a spell has the (Healing) subschool and blocks that spell if it has it.

-- The spellswap function will be moved from the Nexus to the feat lists of spontaneous spellcasters. For sorcerers, favored souls, and warlocks, this will operate as it already does, you will just be able to do it from anywhere. For spirit shamans, they will finally have their pnp retrieve spell feature (prepare like a wizard, cast like a sorcerer). The spellswap feat for shamans will have no cooldown, reflecting their ability to bargain with spirits for their spells each time they rest.

-- Wizard specialists should now correctly get their school display feat, instead of the Generalist feat.
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Re: Coming Soon: Epic Spell and Magic Updates

Unread post by Kitunenotsume »

All in all, a rather solid looking set of changes, many likely well appreciated.

One change that does confuse me a bit is
-- Primal Speed: Primal Speed now lasts 24 hours. It is mutually-exclusive with Haste-effects, though.
Doesn't this basically Longstrider for at most a 1-level increase? (P&P: +10ft/rnd, hour/level; BG: +30% movement, round/level).
I can see that extended Longstrider gives utility at epic levels, but that makes it the same spell level for less utility at high levels exclusively, because they still have a 1-round cast time that substantially mitigates the low-level utility of a round/level speed boost.
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Re: Coming Soon: Epic Spell and Magic Updates

Unread post by Rhifox »

I could bump Primal Speed back up a few levels due to the buff. The pnp version, which is level 6, is +5 Reflex and +10ft speed increase for 24 hours, but it also has the bonus of being able to give uncanny dodge/improved uncanny dodge if you have it active at the same time as other primal spells. Figuring out a good level for it when you remove the uncanny dodge part is tricky. Level 3 Ranger, 5 Druid/Sorcerer? Or 2 Ranger, 4 Druid/Sorc?

Longstrider could also do with something closer to pnp tbh. It's pretty worthless on BG since expeditious retreat is far better for the same level.
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Re: Coming Soon: Epic Spell and Magic Updates

Unread post by DaloLorn »

Out of curiosity, why not make it fully PnP-accurate? Is it balancing, or perceived technical limitations?
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Re: Coming Soon: Epic Spell and Magic Updates

Unread post by mrm3ntalist »

Good changes. IS there going to be an 100% RCR period?
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Re: Coming Soon: Epic Spell and Magic Updates

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mrm3ntalist wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:24 pm Good changes. IS there going to be an 100% RCR period?
Presumably it'd be easier for spellcasters to just have the feat swapped out if they wanted to change their epic spells.
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Re: Coming Soon: Epic Spell and Magic Updates

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Dragonslayer wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:29 pm
mrm3ntalist wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:24 pm Good changes. IS there going to be an 100% RCR period?
Presumably it'd be easier for spellcasters to just have the feat swapped out if they wanted to change their epic spells.
Low cl casters might want to get rid of epic spells altogether
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Re: Coming Soon: Epic Spell and Magic Updates

Unread post by mrm3ntalist »

Also with spells such as vampiric feast that now will "obey death immunity" have you considered increasing its number of uses? It sounds like it will be a glorified Wail of the Banshee
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Re: Coming Soon: Epic Spell and Magic Updates

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mrm3ntalist wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:24 pm Good changes. IS there going to be an 100% RCR period?
A 100% RCR would be appropriate based on the precedence already set.

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Re: Coming Soon: Epic Spell and Magic Updates

Unread post by Rhifox »

DaloLorn wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:54 pm Out of curiosity, why not make it fully PnP-accurate? Is it balancing, or perceived technical limitations?
I think giving mages the ability to get uncanny dodge/improved uncanny dodge by just casting a suite of spells is probably a bit too strong.
mrm3ntalist wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:24 pm Good changes. IS there going to be an 100% RCR period?
We will consider allowing 100% RCRs for this. No promises though.
mrm3ntalist wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:44 pm Also with spells such as vampiric feast that now will "obey death immunity" have you considered increasing its number of uses? It sounds like it will be a glorified Wail of the Banshee
Might instead consider giving proper Epic Spell slots like pnp, so you get a number of epic slots that you can choose to use for any of the epic spells you have access to. Instead of each one being balanced separately around multiple uses.
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Re: Coming Soon: Epic Spell and Magic Updates

Unread post by Lockonnow »

I found it odd whan you have 2 items in hands you might failure you cast whan youre wizard but you dont fix the about Daggerspell mage cast with Archmage Ability arcane ray so whan you have 2 daggers in hands you sould do more dmg like the way with warlock /daggerspell mage cast ?
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Re: Coming Soon: Epic Spell and Magic Updates

Unread post by DaloLorn »

Ooh, epic spell slots would also allow 10th-level metamagic... :D
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Re: Coming Soon: Epic Spell and Magic Updates

Unread post by Rhifox »

DaloLorn wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:39 am Ooh, epic spell slots would also allow 10th-level metamagic... :D
No it wouldn't. Epic spell slots and Improved Capacity spell slots are two entirely different mechanics.
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Re: Coming Soon: Epic Spell and Magic Updates

Unread post by DaloLorn »

... So it seems. Oh well.
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Re: Coming Soon: Epic Spell and Magic Updates

Unread post by Dolorof »

mrm3ntalist wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:44 pm Also with spells such as vampiric feast that now will "obey death immunity" have you considered increasing its number of uses? It sounds like it will be a glorified Wail of the Banshee
Might instead consider giving proper Epic Spell slots like pnp, so you get a number of epic slots that you can choose to use for any of the epic spells you have access to. Instead of each one being balanced separately around multiple uses.
[/quote]

I like this idea a lot. Is it something reasonable to implement?
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