NEXT UPDATE : Dragon Disciple

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Valefort
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NEXT UPDATE : Dragon Disciple

Unread post by Valefort »

Dragon Disciple

WARNING/NOTE: This class cannot multiclass with Dragon Warrior, Dragon Slayer or Palemaster.

It is known that certain dragons can take humanoid form and even have humanoid lovers. Sometimes a child is born of this union, and every child of that child unto the thousandth generation claims a bit of the dragon blood, be it ever so small. Usually, little comes of it, though mighty sorcerers occasionally credit their powers to draconic heritage. For some, however, dragon blood beckons irresistibly. These characters become dragon disciples, who use their magical power as a catalyst to ignite their dragon blood, realizing its fullest potential.

Dragon disciples refer a life of exploration to a cloistered existence. Occasionally, a serious spellcaster explores the path to further a goal of finding out more about his draconic heritage. Barbarians, clerics, druids, fighters and rangers rarely choose to become dragon disciples. Already adept at magic, many pursue adventure, especially if it furthers their goal of finding out more about their draconic heritage. All dragon disciples are drawn to areas known to harbor dragons.

Requirements:
Skills: Knowledge Arcana: 8 ranks
Languages: Draconic
Spellcasting: Able to cast 5th level arcane spells without preparation (Sorcerer or Bard)
Alignment: Special
Special: Dragon Disciple is only choosable by characters whose alignment matches that of their intended colour. In other words only a Lawful Good character can become a Gold Dragon Disciple, and only a Lawful Evil character can become a Green Dragon Disciple.

Dragon Disciple should only be choosable by characters whose alignment matches that of their intended colour. In other words only a Lawful Good character can become a Gold Dragon Disciple, and only a Lawful Evil character can become a Green Dragon Disciple.
  • Black Dragon: Chaotic Evil
  • Blue Dragon: Lawful Evil
  • Brass Dragon: Chaotic Good
  • Bronze Dragon: Lawful Good
  • Copper Dragon: Chaotic Good
  • Gold Dragon: Lawful Good
  • Green Dragon: Lawful Evil
  • Red Dragon: Chaotic Evil
  • Silver Dragon: Lawful Good
  • White Dragon: Chaotic Evil
Class Features:
Hit Die: d6
Base Attack Bonus: Low
High Saves: Fortitude, Will
Weapon Proficiencies: Dragon Disciple gain no weapon proficiencies.
Armor Proficiencies: Dragon Disciple gain no armor proficiencies.
Skill Points: 2 + Int Modifier.
Class Skills: Concentration, Craft Alchemy, Craft Armor, Craft Weapon, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Knowledge Arcana, Listen, Search, Spellcraft, and Spot

Class Abilities:
Level 1: NA +1
Level 2: Claw and Bite (1d6 bite and 1d4 claw)
Level 3: Breath Weapon 3d12
Level 4: NA +1
Level 5: Blind Fight
Level 6: Ability Increase: CON +2
Level 7: Breath Weapon 6d12, NA +1
Level 8: Ability Increase: INT +2
Level 9: Spell Casting Progression
Level 10: Dragon Apotheosis

Spells per Day/Spells Known: The character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as though he had gained a level in the bard or sorcerer base class at every Dragon Disciple level except levels 3, 7 and 10 .

Natural Armor Increase (Ex): At 1st, 4th, and 7th level, a dragon disciple becomes more draconic in appearance. His skin develops tiny iridescent scales, nearly invisible at first but becoming more noticeable at higher levels. This provides an increase to the character's existing natural armor (if any). As his skin thickens, a dragon disciple takes on more and more of his progenitor's physical aspect.

Claw and Bite (Ex): At 2nd level, a dragon disciple gains claw and bite attacks if he does not already have them. A dragon disciple is considered proficient with these attacks. Gains 1d6 bite and 1d4 claw.

Ability Boost (Ex): As a dragon disciple gains levels in this prestige class, his ability scores increase as noted. These increases stack and are gained as if through level advancement.

Breath Weapon (Su): At 3rd level, a dragon disciple gains a minor breath weapon, derived from his draconic ancestor. The type and shape depend on the dragon variety whose heritage he enjoys. Regardless of the ancestor, the breath weapon deals 3d12 points of damage of the appropriate energy type.
At 7th level, the damage increases to 6d12, and when a disciple attains dragon apotheosis at 10th level it reaches its full power at 9d12. The DC of the breath weapon is 10 + class level + Con modifier. Uses per day equal to the dragon disciple's Cha modifer.

Blindsense (Ex): At 5th level, the dragon disciple gains blind fight. Using nonvisual senses, such as acute smell or hearing, the dragon disciple notices things it cannot see. In melee, every time you miss because of concealment, you can reroll your miss chance percentile roll one time to see if you actually hit. An invisible attacker gets no advantages related to hitting you in melee. That is, you don’t lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and the attacker doesn’t get the usual +2 bonus for being invisible. The invisible attacker’s bonuses do still apply for ranged attacks, however. Gains Blind Fight.

Dragon Apotheosis: At 10th level, a dragon disciple fully realizes his draconic heritage. His breath weapon reaches full strength, and he gains +2 to Strength and Charisma. His natural armor bonus increases by 1 to +4 total, and he acquires darkvision, immunity to sleep and paralysis effects, and immunity to energy type used by his breath weapon.
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Nemni
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Re: NEXT UPDATE : Dragon Disciple

Unread post by Nemni »

Looks pretty cool!

Does the natural armor stack, like the palemasters? When do the claw/bite damage apply, just when fighting unarmed?
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Valefort
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Re: NEXT UPDATE : Dragon Disciple

Unread post by Valefort »

Yes and yes, unarmed, that part is mostly fluff.
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Re: NEXT UPDATE : Dragon Disciple

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

Sorcerer 7/Blackguard 3/Eldritch Knight 10/Dragon Disciple 10...

Caster level of 27, easier time to get EDM and Auto-Still Spells... Yeah, I can see people going for this PRC. It needs that feat on Martial Weapon Proficiency though, but the feat requirements are quite manageable.

Or you could make a: Bard 17/Blackguard 3/Dragon Disciple 10 and have caster level 28. You do lose out on epic songs, I believe, but do you really need those?
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Valefort
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Re: NEXT UPDATE : Dragon Disciple

Unread post by Valefort »

You can play without but your BAB will be annoyingly low, the STR bonus doesn't make up for it and the inspire courage won't be as powerful either so ... doable ? Sure, but I don't think it's more powerful than existing combinations.
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Re: NEXT UPDATE : Dragon Disciple

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

Ah, yes, noticed the issue with the bard one. Bard 16/Blackguard 4/Dragon Disciple 10, caster level of 27, BAB of 21. This is very much doable and not everyone wants to play that Requiem spamming bard.

The inspire courage will just be two points lower than with a pure bard. Not to mention that with +2 to both STR and CHA, that is basically 4 Great Ability feats that could be spent on either STR or CHA. The first give soyu +2 AB and 2-3 points of damage, and the other +4 points of Divine Damage and two more uses of EDM.

I can see people going for it.
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Re: NEXT UPDATE : Dragon Disciple

Unread post by Glowfire »

Let's see how many will actually RP their characters looking like beasts... :lol:
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Re: NEXT UPDATE : Dragon Disciple

Unread post by chad878262 »

Sun Wukong wrote: Bard 16/Blackguard 4/Dragon Disciple 10, caster level of 27, BAB of 21. This is very much doable and not everyone wants to play that Requiem spamming bard.
21 (BAB) + 4 (EB) + 4 (Inspire Courage) + 4 (Greater Heroism) + 8 (~26 STR) = 41. Not a bad Attack bonus, but not stellar either, certainly would not be a good idea to use Power attack, but with EDM you don't need it. Expose Weakness would help, but any dip to get it will cost your CL dropping to 24, which becomes subject to regular dispels.

Point being, while it is like getting 4 great STR/CHA feats it is not better than what can be done with a B26/BG4 today which is CL30 and will end up with better attack bonus and more damage, if slightly lower overall stats. The idea was to allow DD to be played without it being the 'optimized' choice. The way we implemented it is certainly an option and it does give an easier path if you want an EDM Gish. However, we feel you are now giving up some things that make it more of a decision, rather than a no-brainer.
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Valefort
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Re: NEXT UPDATE : Dragon Disciple

Unread post by Valefort »

I'll try to make a permanent VFX so that scales are visible. Bite and claws though ... no visual clues.
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Re: NEXT UPDATE : Dragon Disciple

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

Valefort wrote:I'll try to make a permanent VFX so that scales are visible. Bite and claws though ... no visual clues.
Or how about just adding those flappy-bat-wings?
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Re: NEXT UPDATE : Dragon Disciple

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

chad878262 wrote:21 (BAB) + 4 (EB) + 4 (Inspire Courage) + 4 (Greater Heroism) + 8 (~26 STR) = 41. Not a bad Attack bonus, but not stellar either, certainly would not be a good idea to use Power attack, but with EDM you don't need it.
Add Haste (lvl 3) for +1 AB, which makes you sit at 42 AB.

Add Bull's Strength (lvl 2) for +4 Strength and +2 AB, which makes you sit at 44 AB.

Add War Cry (lvl 4) for +2 AB, which makes you sit at 46 AB.

Add Curse Song for +5~ AB by reducing enemy AC by -5~, which makes you sit at 51~ AB.

You can reach base 26 STR and 22 CHA on an Aasimar, and thanks to +2 INT you could spend a feat on Improved Knockdown at level 29. (Starting stats: STR 16, DEX 14, CON 10, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 18)

Thus I believe I could be using EDM with Improved Power Attack if I deemed it necessary.

Now, what this Bard doesn't have is the healing or damage output gained from the Hymn of Requiem or the BAB increase from Legionnaire's March. The former requires 21 bard and the latter 18 bard. But, it would still be able to duke things out...

Edit:
Feats Taken:
Level 1: Curse Song
Level 3: Power Attack
Level 6: Cleave
Level 9: Practised Spell Caster
Level 12: Divine Might
Level 15: Improved Power Attack
Level 18: Knockdown
Level 21: Great Strength I
Level 23: Great Strength II
Level 25: Great Strength III
Level 27: Epic Divine Might
Level 29: Improved Knockdown

It is missing Lingering Song, but with EDM... Improved Knockdown... Improved Power Attack, does it really need it?
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Re: NEXT UPDATE : Dragon Disciple

Unread post by chad878262 »

Sun Wukong wrote:Add Haste (lvl 3) for +1 AB, which makes you sit at 42 AB.
lasts 2 minutes, 42 seconds (5 min, 24 sec extended) and Bards are far more limited in number of casts per rest, haste can't be up all the time.
Sun Wukong wrote:Add Bull's Strength (lvl 2) for +4 Strength and +2 AB, which makes you sit at 44 AB.
I was assuming 22 STR / 22 CHA, but sure you could likely hit 24/22 or 26/22 if min/maxed.
Sun Wukong wrote:Add War Cry (lvl 4) for +2 AB, which makes you sit at 46 AB.
See Haste...
Sun Wukong wrote:Add Curse Song for +5~ AB by reducing enemy AC by -5~, which makes you sit at 51~ AB.
16 Bard levels so a fair number of uses, certainly enough for when it matters.

As I said, my point is not that it isn't viable, it certainly is... My point is it is not as strong as a B26/BG4 with Hymn of Requiem and everything the DD build has besides 2 higher STR and CHA (or higher in other stats.) Bards relying on round per level spells for anything outside of boss fights is a mistake. Chord has bonus spells from helm, gloves and a ring and he still only gets ~5 1st level, 6 2nd and 3rd level, 7 4th level, 5 5th level and 4 6th level spells cast per rest. 4th level is Shadow Conjuration - Mage Armor and one other buff I generally cast for long term after rest (honestly can't recall right now). I also utilize Displacement alongside haste so total casts of 3rd/4th level spells end up in short supply.
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Diamore
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Re: NEXT UPDATE : Dragon Disciple

Unread post by Diamore »

Why does this disallow Dragon Warrior? A sorcerer or warrior of draconic blood serving a greater dragon makes a great deal of RP sense. Is there a synergy that makes this combination disbalancing that I am not seeing?
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Re: NEXT UPDATE : Dragon Disciple

Unread post by Rudolph »

Interesting new class. Thanks Valefort. How do you manage it all? A few questions:
How do those bite and claw attacks work. How many bites and claw attacks at 26 BAB? Do all Unarmed improvements apply? How would Monk progression affect the damage?
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Re: NEXT UPDATE : Dragon Disciple

Unread post by Sun Wukong »

Diamore wrote:Why does this disallow Dragon Warrior? A sorcerer or warrior of draconic blood serving a greater dragon makes a great deal of RP sense. Is there a synergy that makes this combination disbalancing that I am not seeing?
If you think about it, why couldn't a Dragon Disciple also be a Dragonslayer? Or how about a Dragon Warrior that is also a Dragonslayer?

The multiclassing limitation is probably just to limit out the "Sorcerer/Dragon/Dragon/Dragon" builds... :lol:
" I am no longer here, the elves of the Sword Coast are just far too horrible... "
- Elminster, probably.
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